Sap Transfer Pump

[Urban Sugarmaker]

My RO is in the basement and the garage is about 100' away. For 2017 I'm considering using some mainline tubing and a pump to transfer sap and permeate rather than carrying 5 gallon buckets back and forth. Basically, as the RO runs it will discharge into a small tank and the pump will transfer from there. I figured I can rig up a wireless remote switch to control it. I may also put in a camera to monitor what's going on.

Now to my question: What type of pump should I use? I can only boil around 12-13 gph so I don't need a lot of capacity. Also, if the line drains after each transfer, is freezing going to be a problem?

[MapleMark753]

I hope others will speak to the pump deal, but maybe consider this: If possible just use the RO AS the pump and pump directly to wherever you want the permeate and concentrate to be through either pipe or hose.
In our small deal here we do that, but a shorter distance, maybe 35 feet or so. The RO (at least ours) will shoot that stuff wherever you want it to go, and up some too.
Maybe a pump would be better in your situation, dunno...
good luck Mark

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Good idea, but I'm not sure the concentrate side will generate enough pressure. I misspoke about the distance too. It's maybe 75-80', not 100'. It has to lift from the basement and rise about 12 feet or so, so it goes to the head tank.

[BRL]

how about a surflo pump, cheap and easy!

[wiam]

Good idea, but I'm not sure the concentrate side will generate enough pressure. I misspoke about the distance too. It's maybe 75-80', not 100'. It has to lift from the basement and rise about 12 feet or so, so it goes to the head tank.

What pressure do you run at? There should be no problem using the ro to put concentrate or permeate most anywhere you need to. My first ro was in my barn 300' from the sugar house. Concentrate was pumped over and up probably 20'. Just make sure the pump line is not froze. Otherwise there will be ro system pressure on that line. Mine did not take it. :rolleyes:

[ennismaple]

Our RO pumps concentrate up 12' to the head tank at the far end of our sugar camp (say 30' away). No sense pumping more than is necessary - let the RO do the work. Worst case you install a 3/4" line instead of 1/2" to overcome the friction losses. At 3GPM the flow rate is pretty slow out of a 1/2" pipe so you're likely still OK at 1/2" and 80ft of travel.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

All great feedback on this. Wiam I am not sure what my concentrate pressure is. I can tell you that this year my flows were 50/50 and when the brix was getting close to 8% the total flow was 90-100gph. I didn't keep good records but I'd say the concentrate had to run at least 1.5 to 1 at higher brix. No recirculation pump.

This year I was planning on trying Bowhunter's advice and setting the RO to output concentrate around 13 gph at 8% sugar. This configuration means a lot of recirculation flow. That's my concern because 13 gph is very low pressure. I'm definitely in favor of trying a Shurflo just in case.

And yes, still concerned about freezing. I often boil at night when temps drops. I don't want to clot off the line if the flow is too slow.

[ennismaple]

The line won't freeze with concentrate flowing through it unless it is waaaay below freezing. You will have to make sure it is well drained once the RO turns off. We have quick connects and valves to drain the concentrate and permeate lines at night. It is not fun showing up the next day to discover you have to replace a bunch of piping because it is frozen solid!

[Urban Sugarmaker]

The line won't freeze with concentrate flowing through it unless it is waaaay below freezing. You will have to make sure it is well drained once the RO turns off. We have quick connects and valves to drain the concentrate and permeate lines at night. It is not fun showing up the next day to discover you have to replace a bunch of piping because it is frozen solid!

Great point. I totally forgot that concentrate has a lower freezing point. I would just want to be able to rinse with permeate and drain at the end of each use to avoid bacteria/mold buildup.

I think I will get the Shurflo pump just in case, but I will also see how it performs without a pump. During cleaning, permeate flow is pretty strong, so no worries there.

[ennismaple]

Even raw sap has a lower freezing point. I've seen early season sap go through the RO at -1 Celcius. Running a bit of permeate through the lines at the end of the day is a good idea. Even if its just a few gallons it will help reduce bacterial action.