How big?

[maplenutter butter]

I'm curious on peoples thoughts on this. I'm slowly growing my sugar bush and was curious on how big I can get before I would not be able to keep up. I'm currently at 950 taps. Will be hopefully going to 2500 (possibly 5000) taps this up coming season. Everything on vacuum. My evaporator cooks down 200 gallons of sap an hour (fuel oil run). I plan on adding a RO this year as well. Will have 3 bushes all with in half hour of the sugar house (one being right next to it). I work full time and get to the farm around 5 and work there until 1am no problem. Weekends off. I may get a little help from my dad collecting and possibly running it through the RO (not sure since ive never run an RO myself and would have to teach him along with myself) I'm hoping one day (should say year) to hopefully do syruping for a living. Thanks in advance!

[madmapler]

My scenario is similar to yours. I'm at about 5000 taps and do most of it alone. I have help tapping and occasional help in the sugarhouse. My bushes are several miles away. The big difference is I can focus mainly on sugaring during the season and that's a good thing because when things get flowing, it takes almost all my time. Add a few inevitable breakdowns from pumps, Ro's, trucks, line leaks, etc. and I'm fortunate to get any sleep at all some days. I'm working hard at getting things streamlined so I can handle things better. A large sap hauler(3250 gal.) is a big time saver and this year a large RO (2400GPH.) will make it so I can concentrate to 15% and pretty much start the evaporator after getting back with a load. I put elec. at my bushes this year as well so I can automate and get away from propane and the potential engine problems. If you set things up well, I think it's doable aside from the problems that'll always happen. I would get things streamlined first before adding all the taps though.

[Maple Man 85]

Sean, my set up is going to be very similar to yours from both a tap count and equipment sizing perspective, how much time do you invest in chasing leaks and fixing the inevitable breakdowns in an average year? I work 2nd shift as well as sugar so my plan was to collect right before I go to work and when I get home start the RO and collect from the afternoon's run while cooking in the early morning. Then catch a few hours sleep and wake up in time for maintenance, the lines to thaw and chase leaks before starting the process all over again.

Completely agree that a good setup saves time and money even though it may cost a bit more up front.

Anthony

[madmapler]

how much time do you invest in chasing leaks and fixing the inevitable breakdowns in an average year? Anthony

That's really hard to say. Last year I had a few stressful vac. pump issues that I hope will be ok this year. The turbo went on the truck. Releasers need thawing/tweaking as well as other things. My woods are still pretty new so once I get things tightened up in the beginning it generally holds pretty good but I headed out looking for leaks 3 or 4 times because my gauges dropped. I use valves and gauges on all my main branches to save chasing time. A lot of it is that you always find a way to make things better once things are operating. You just want to get the most out of it. Trying to do a schedule like you guys are talking about would seem pretty difficult to me but I suppose you just do the best you can with the time you've got. Things could go well or not but when they don't, it's all on you. I personally couldn't imagine finding out my releaser was messed up on the way to work and having to think about it all day. It would kill me.

[Maple Man 85]

I personally couldn't imagine finding out my releaser was messed up on the way to work and having to think about it all day. It would kill me.[/QUOTE]

Understandable, I'm investing a fairly large amount of money to get our operation up and running and losing sap would be really tough to take the first couple years due to equipment failure. I am very lucky to have a our bush directly across the road from our house and a wife that stays home with our kids who can monitor if something goes wrong. Worst case I call in and use a few hours personal time to get the equipment up and running or lean on a neighboring farmer to lend a hand. The great thing about the farmers in my area is that we are a community I borrowed out my truck yesterday because there was a breakdown and the neighboring farmer had no way to get home for parts. Hopefully my kindness will be remembered and I can call in a favor if something breaks.

[madmapler]

It sounds like you have circumstances that I don't. I'm in an area that's tough to farm and the farming community is dwindling, hence a lack of helpful, capable neighbors.:)

[maplenutter butter]

Sean, I forgot to mention I do have about 3 weeks PTO that I can use. I have all new equipment and payed more to hopefully have less issues. I have the same as you, where I put in gages and valves to find leaks easier. If something isn't working proper, I just call in a few hours late to work. I aslo play catch up on the weekends to make adjustments on the fly to help save time during the week and sleep. I also have electric run to all my woods. My biggest fear is that my releaser will get stuck open and I loose all my vacuum. Had it happen early in the season last year but after a I made a little adjustment, it never failed again. God willing I know I can pull this off with little loss of production.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

From someone who helped run a 5400 tap operation with 3-4 people, my opinion is you need to have a flexible schedule at that size. The guy we help is retired and the operation is all right as his residence so that is huge. But even with that, during the season we are all busy when the sap runs which you will never be able to figure out let alone control.
We RO and boil the same day and make mostly light and medium syrup to maximize production. You could always dump sap too if you had to but that would kill me and not an option unless money doesn't matter. Nothing wrong with it but 5000 taps and boiling just after work and on weekends will be hard to keep up.....especially when something goes array. But you never know until you try......why not try 2500 first and see how that goes? Just have the equipment and storage for 5000....

[JoeJ]

I had about 980 taps at my sugar house and then four years ago, a friend offered to let me tap trees on his 80 acres. The wood are only 4.5 miles from my sugar house. Power was 160' away. The woods have a perfect slope to the sap shed. The 18- 1" lines are very symmetrical along a 2,900 main line that is easy to check for leaks on. So now I have about 3,150 taps. The first two seasons with the 3,150 taps were a learning experience with 2 or 3 hectic days hauling sap back to the sugar house. Then came 2016 with huge sap flows at both woods. The old sometime long days turned into a lot of very long 5:30 am to 12:00 PM days. I had to enlist my wife's help at 6:00 am (that wasn't too popular) to watch the RO and switch tanks while I hauled sap from 6:am to 3:00 pm. In my opinion, hauling sap from off your property adds a lot of negative issues to the operation, especially if you do it yourself like me. For me, the 2,150 taps off site took the fun out of sugaring. I might have a different view of this if all the taps were at my sugar house. I still have a great time working in the woods the rest of the year, but don't really look forward to sap season. In the ever great hind sight, if I knew what I know now, I would not expand the extra 2,150 taps

[PerryFamily]

I had about 980 taps at my sugar house and then four years ago, a friend offered to let me tap trees on his 80 acres. The wood are only 4.5 miles from my sugar house. Power was 160' away. The woods have a perfect slope to the sap shed. The 18- 1" lines are very symmetrical along a 2,900 main line that is easy to check for leaks on. So now I have about 3,150 taps. The first two seasons with the 3,150 taps were a learning experience with 2 or 3 hectic days hauling sap back to the sugar house. Then came 2016 with huge sap flows at both woods. The old sometime long days turned into a lot of very long 5:30 am to 12:00 PM days. I had to enlist my wife's help at 6:00 am (that wasn't too popular) to watch the RO and switch tanks while I hauled sap from 6:am to 3:00 pm. In my opinion, hauling sap from off your property adds a lot of negative issues to the operation, especially if you do it yourself like me. For me, the 2,150 taps off site took the fun out of sugaring. I might have a different view of this if all the taps were at my sugar house. I still have a great time working in the woods the rest of the year, but don't really look forward to sap season. In the ever great hind sight, if I knew what I know now, I would not expand the extra 2,150 taps

Sounds similar to me
I lease every single tap. Not one runs to me. I spend a lot of time running the roads either checking pumps and releasers or hauling sap ( hopefully both at the same time )
I cant say I don't look forward to it but it definitely takes a lot of the fun out of it. I have found with help, and with fire wood, just because its free doesn't mean its any good!
I find it easier to do things myself. Ive spent the money putting good reliable electricity in now I'm leaning towards dropping a phone line in so I can have an internet connection for a camera at each station. Would save a lot of miles if I could see vac guage, releaser operation and tank level.

[motowbrowne]

Hey Mr. Nutbutter? Where are you at in Minnesota?

[maplenutter butter]

I'm located around the Belle Plaine/Henderson area. About half way between Mankato and Minneapolis.

We have not decided to grow as big as I had hoped for next season. We will be hopefully pushing about 1200 taps this up coming season. Our plans of right now (they constantly change) is to grow our sales and put up a larger sugar house next spring, with the hope of having the right woods come along and without forcing the issue.

[motowbrowne]

I'm located around the Belle Plaine/Henderson area. About half way between Mankato and Minneapolis.

We have not decided to grow as big as I had hoped for next season. We will be hopefully pushing about 1200 taps this up coming season. Our plans of right now (they constantly change) is to grow our sales and put up a larger sugar house next spring, with the hope of having the right woods come along and without forcing the issue.

Right on. I'm just across the border from the twin cities. If you're ever in the area, stop on by. Where'd you get your supplies from?

I think that waiting for the perfect woods is probably the best idea. The way some guys talk about hauling sap sure doesn't make it sound fun.

[maplenutter butter]

I buy most of my stuff from Herrings in Waterville. Its a short, easy drive and they have also came out and helped me set my woods up during there busy time of the year. They have also been awsome at helping me with problems that pop up. Are you a supplier? If so it would be nice to have second supplier relitivley close.

[motowbrowne]

I buy most of my stuff from Herrings in Waterville. Its a short, easy drive and they have also came out and helped me set my woods up during there busy time of the year. They have also been awsome at helping me with problems that pop up. Are you a supplier? If so it would be nice to have second supplier relitivley close.

No, I'm not a supplier. I'm just always on the lookout for new dealers in my area. Sounds like herrings is a little out of my normal stomping grounds, but it's good to know who's who in the area.