Preferred insulation and thickness

[mudr]

My new 2x6 just got delivered and now I'm working on the insulation. I had some 2 inch 8lb blanket left over from my barrel arch. I split that to make 1 inch thick pieces and used that for the flue area. I have a bunch of split brick ready to go, now all that is left is the figure out the insulation for the firebox behind the brick.

I like the idea of the board for the firebox as it is ridgid. I know bascom has 1 inch, and they seem to be the cheapest I've seen (haven't seen their shipping cost yet though). I haven't found a refractory place locally yet, but hope to find one as it will save shipping.

My biggest questions are: is 1 inch board enough? Is there 2 inch out there? Any tips on where to look for best prices?

[motowbrowne]

My new 2x6 just got delivered and now I'm working on the insulation. I had some 2 inch 8lb blanket left over from my barrel arch. I split that to make 1 inch thick pieces and used that for the flue area. I have a bunch of split brick ready to go, now all that is left is the figure out the insulation for the firebox behind the brick.

I like the idea of the board for the firebox as it is ridgid. I know bascom has 1 inch, and they seem to be the cheapest I've seen (haven't seen their shipping cost yet though). I haven't found a refractory place locally yet, but hope to find one as it will save shipping.

My biggest questions are: is 1 inch board enough? Is there 2 inch out there? Any tips on where to look for best prices?

1" arch board is what was behind the split brick in the firebox of my old 2x10. It's what will be behind the full brick of my new rig too. That's what the previous owner used, and the stainless arch isn't even discolored after several years of use. Since you're talking about a 2' wide rig, i would also mention that you don't want to reduce the size of your firebox by adding extra insulation. With the 1" board, I could touch the outside of my firebox. I couldn't leave my hand on it, but I could touch it.

Honestly, I wish the darned thing would waste a little more heat. I don't have a woodstove in the shack, and it's cold in there at times.

[MISugarDaddy]

mudr
When I purchased my 2' by 6' Leader from Sugar Bush Supplies last year, Rick offered to install the insulation and brick it for 3 hours of labor, plus materials. Since I had seen the quality of his work, I took him up on his offer (best $150 I could have spent). He used 1" rigid insulation throughout the arch; three rows of full bricks in the lower part of the firebox and half bricks in the remainder of the firebox and throughout the rest of the arch. The arch never got hot enough on the outside to burn a person if they were to touch it.
Gary

[Bricklayer]

I used 1.5" Roxul IS board in my arch. Put 1" blanked in front of it in the flue area and same in the firebox with full firebrick over it. I could actually hold my hand on the sides of the firebox just got warm to the touch but never hot enough to have to pull your hand away.
The reason I went with Roxul is because its not brittle but it will become brittle if left to direct flame but if protected by blanket it will last forever. It's pretty ridged, and moisture in the offseason won't effect it's insulating value, and mice and other animals don't like it.
I figured I'd try it out since I've read post on here about people asking about it
It's a fraction of the price also and can be bought at all Home Depots.

[mudr]

Bricklayer, this stuff?

www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.is-insulated-sheathing-board-for-basement-and-exterior-wall-applications.1000737930.html

And, if I follow, you did 1 inch blanket, then this stuff, then full brick? That should be cool to the touch, you are looking at 5 inches or so of brick/insulation. :)

[wiam]

From Home Depot website. "Formaldehyde Free:No". I would not put that in my arch. I have 2" of ceramic blanket in mine. That is what I had in my 2x6 with brick in the firebox. I see no need for brick under flues.

[Bricklayer]

That's the stuff I used. If you cut it about 1/2" bigger them the size it will fit real tight. I used the Roxul first then blanket then firebrick. Just in the firebox though. The last brick before the pan I cut it on a heavy angle to get the flame to the pan edges. Worked great.
In the flue area I used Roxul then fire blanket.
I used 3.5" angle for my top rails of my arch to allow for insulation. It made ordering a pan a pita but I just got the float box and draw off valve extended.
What I did also was have all the fire blanket cut and ready to go before I installed the Roxul. I tucked the fire blanket under the top rails and then installed the Roxul. It holds it real tight under the rails and compresses it so it's a nice tight seal between the rails and the Roxul. When I installed the brick I overlapped the corners so they tie into one another so each wall inside the fire box braces the next wall. It keeps the walls from moving and cracking due to the little bit of play in the fire blanket.
I wish I had pictures but it's always the last thing I think of when I'm doing something.

[Bricklayer]

I would say that ceramic fibres floating around are no better either. Usually anything that dosnt burn usually isn't good for you. I would love t see the ingredients in arch board. It's gotta have some kind of binding agent

[motowbrowne]

I think obviously, the more insulation the better, but there's a problem with that. If you're using an arch made by one of the manufacturers, it's not going to have room for tons of extra insulation. If you'll notice in his signature, bricklayer built his own arch. If that's something you want to do, sure, build it large and full the thing with insulation. If you take a manufactured 2x6, though and start adding more layers than ours designed for, your firebox is gonna shrink. Gotta leave some room for wood, you know?

[Bricklayer]

I built mine a bit bigger to accommodate more insulation because I have little kids that love touching things. Wanted to make it as safe as possible. Like I said though most pans with the sanitary fittings won't fit on a wide arch. So as long as you take that into consideration you'll be fine

[motowbrowne]

I built mine a bit bigger to accommodate more insulation because I have little kids that love touching things. Wanted to make it as safe as possible. Like I said though most pans with the sanitary fittings won't fit on a wide arch. So as long as you take that into consideration you'll be fine

Makes perfect sense. I just wanted to mage sure that the OP understands that a regular 2x6 will not accommodate this type of setup.

Out of curiosity, is the front of your arch super insulated as well? I have only a 1" layer of arch board and split brick on my arch. It stays pretty cool. The cast front however gets pretty hot. My avatar is a picture of my doors.

[mudr]

Thanks everyone. As of now leaning towards bascom. I tried finding insulation from the Maple Guys but can't find any. Do they have some and is it hidden on their page?

[Bricklayer]

I've got 3 layers of blanket on the door with a sacrificial piece of 1/2" cement board that I replace every week or so during the season. Door stayed hot but didn't warp or turn cherry red. The angle around it that holds the brick in place around the opening inside the firebox turns so cherry red I can almost see through it. No way to insulate that though. Ifs 3/8" angle so it will last a while before it burns out.

[BAP]

Thanks everyone. As of now leaning towards bascom. I tried finding insulation from the Maple Guys but can't find any. Do they have some and is it hidden on their page?
Contact The Maple Guys, Chris carries more stuff than what his web page shows.

[mudr]

I will probably be ordering from bascom today. I called and emailed maple guys, both to no avail, I doubt they be any cheaper than bascom's price anyway.

So I will be getting this for just the firebox as I have the flues taken care of with blanket. My next question is about the underside of the base stack area, inside the arch. Does anyone insulate that? If so, how? My best guess is cut arch board 24×whatever, trace the cutout of the base stack opening, and then stick it up with high temp wood stove gasket. Thoughts?

[Bricklayer]

You can insulate it. I tried to put blanket on mine but I didn't like it because it's hard to keep attached. I removed it right after first boil. If you use arch board it probley would not last long if not covered in blanket. My stack temps were well over 1100f and base plate on stack cherry red sometimes. Everything held up.

[mudr]

I started the insulation process today. The board definitely is much easier to work with on vertical surfaces. I got it all in, again, just the firebox area since I had blanket for the flue area. I got the first two rows of brick down. My question now is- do I need to brick it all the way to the arch rail in the firebox? I feel like the top two rows would be a bit excessive, I don't foresee wood being stacked that high.

[Sugarbush Ridge]

I used half,,, split brick for top row,, if just in case I did stick a piece of wood toward the side. Now,,, just my 'thoughts'. I put brick under flue pan,,,,,, I 'think' that as the brick get hot they make for more heat going further back under flues.

[acafro]

I started the insulation process today. The board definitely is much easier to work with on vertical surfaces. I got it all in, again, just the firebox area since I had blanket for the flue area. I got the first two rows of brick down. My question now is- do I need to brick it all the way to the arch rail in the firebox? I feel like the top two rows would be a bit excessive, I don't foresee wood being stacked that high.
I used arch board on all surfaces of my evaporator, I used half size firebrick only where the wood hits on the arch board.

Keep in mind that firebrick does not insulate, it protects the material that does insulate from getting damaged. Also, the more firebrick you use the more you have to heat up before you are getting peak performance and that also means there is more cooling you must account for during shut down.

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[mudr]

Thanks acafro. I seem to be seeing conflicting reports with the need for *all* arch board surface to be covered with the brick. Some of my searching suggests you can leave it exposed to the flame (away from direct contact with wood) like you suggest. Others have said the arch board can disintegrate if exposed to flame.

I picked up a few more bricks. I'm going to brick the entire box anyway. I'd rather be safe I guess.

[acafro]

Thanks acafro. I seem to be seeing conflicting reports with the need for *all* arch board surface to be covered with the brick. Some of my searching suggests you can leave it exposed to the flame (away from direct contact with wood) like you suggest. Others have said the arch board can disintegrate if exposed to flame.

I picked up a few more bricks. I'm going to brick the entire box anyway. I'd rather be safe I guess.

I burnt 2 chord of wood last season and all of my arch board looks brand new, other than where some of it got hit by wood. Any insulation directly exposed to heat would probably eventually degrade over time. I expect to have to replace my arch board every several seasons, just PM in my opinion.


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[acafro]

Thanks acafro. I seem to be seeing conflicting reports with the need for *all* arch board surface to be covered with the brick. Some of my searching suggests you can leave it exposed to the flame (away from direct contact with wood) like you suggest. Others have said the arch board can disintegrate if exposed to flame.

I picked up a few more bricks. I'm going to brick the entire box anyway. I'd rather be safe I guess.
This is how I did mine, I could touch the sides with bare hands when it was running full tilt.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/32e228d5daed31e5754f81dddbf36715.jpg



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[Zucker Lager]

Same here as Acafro, Jay

1441614417

[mudr]

Just finished. Will upload a few pics. The blanket is dirty so it does not look pretty, but I reused it all from my crap-tastic barrel rig. I'll take saving money over it looking pristine.

Board in firebox
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/75d0c2eba1ecb25e9ab8fb98d45f3958.jpg

Laying down brick-ramp area
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/384a2fd6547e80b4b69d377eeb06b34a.jpg

Bricked to rails
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/90b2e4e726e9625ca357c11730707874.jpg

Somewhat complex cut for the edges of the bricks on the ramp. I'm proud of myself.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/8cab2d19d0a219894898717ce897ab17.jpg

[acafro]

That'll do

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[Andrew Franklin]

Crazy question...rather than a blanket and bricks to insulate a 2x4 arch, I see refractory cement is castable and not too expensive. In theory could someone just use the cement on the base and up the walls eliminating the need for bricks and blanket/board? Wondering if it would hold up to the wood and if it insulates as well. Just curious...

[wiam]

Not much insulation value. Takes longer to heat up. Takes longer to cool down.

[Zucker Lager]

Crazy question...rather than a blanket and bricks to insulate a 2x4 arch, I see refractory cement is castable and not too expensive. In theory could someone just use the cement on the base and up the walls eliminating the need for bricks and blanket/board? Wondering if it would hold up to the wood and if it insulates as well. Just curious...

Hey Andrew:
In my younger years I worked on boilers we used cast able cement (was called M-48 asbestos cement) over the brickwork to give it all a smooth surface I do remember laying in the sooty fire tube repairing cracks in that every year in our boilers..............just for your information. jay

[Andrew Franklin]

Both great answers and that's all I need to stop thinking about that! Thanks!!!

[Mitchhorne8]

I just watched this video cause I have to do the same job soon.
https://youtu.be/sxN0xxQBslg

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[Mitchhorne8]

I just watched this video cause I have to do the same job soon. I thought (hope) this is the way to go. Cause that's what I'm gonna do with mine. https://youtu.be/sxN0xxQBslg

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