Investment Per Installed Tap High Vac 5/16?

[jeugster]

What does it cost per tap to setup sap collection with high vacuum for a very large operation?

ty

[mellondome]

Rough average per tap costs
Tubing $10
Installation $10
Sap storage for 1 day $10 (woods and sugarhouse)
Vacuum pumps vary depending on situation but figure at least $5 on high side.

So rough is about 35 per tap. Installation rates also vary by region.

So your 45k tap operation will cost you about 1.6 million to install.

[jeugster]

Holy Shiatsu....
What about the production side per tap for bulk?
I'm trying to model collection, production, and processing separately. It gets complicated huh.

[wiam]

What are you calling "production" and "processing"?

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

I ran some numbers for several different sizes in our draft business plan. I think $35/tap is high but $20/tap is scraping by. You're pushing $1 million for 45,000 taps for sure.

[mellondome]

What were your draft numbers including hired installation, tanks, and vac?

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Not hired installation which I am sure is a big expense. I never looked that big so I really don't know what the equipment costs are for that size. But at some point the cost per tap starts to level off. I think we were at $25/tap for 16,000 taps and $28/tap for 10,000. $35/tap is probably close if hiring out the whole install.

[jeugster]

What are you calling "production" and "processing"?


I'm thinking of "Collection" as tap to sap storage with vac.
"Production" is RO to bulk syrup
"Processing" is bulk to fulfillment

If there's a better way to break out the investment costs I'll take it.

I plan to work on the installation and learn to do it myself while working with an experienced installer. It's going to take a few years to get to 45k so I assume the cost will start higher and go down a bit as I'm able to do more of the planning and labor.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

That was how we had planned it as well.......figure out what you need to get started and have a plan for expansion every year. Buy the evaporator, vacuum, shack and storage once. Upgrade the RO once as needed, they have good resale value.

[rhwells2003]

Wow some high numbers there I think. I have a small operation around my house, 450 +/- taps. I set up my woods, vacuum pump, releaser, tank for about $7/tap. We just set up my parents woods (3800 +/-) same as mine with wet/dry line set-up, 26 1" secondary mains, all 5/16 laterals, 5500gal storage tank, and a 3hp pump for about $8/tap. Granted this is just materials and install. Course if your talking a very large operation you can also shop around and get the maple material providers to compete against eachother. We did on our 3800 tap operation, and saved a decent amount of money.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Wow some high numbers there I think. I have a small operation around my house, 450 +/- taps. I set up my woods, vacuum pump, releaser, tank for about $7/tap.

That's the cheap stuff.....what about the RO, electricity, the evaporator and the shack? That's the big money stuff.

[wiam]

That's the cheap stuff.....what about the RO, electricity, the evaporator and the shack? That's the big money stuff.

Original post was only asking about tubing collection.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Ahh yes, I missed that. I see now he has posted in other areas as well. My numbers were for everything. I'd have to find my spreadsheet for the breakdown. You'll certainly want to talk with as many larger producers as you can. They will be your best reference.

[Maple Man 85]

Cost per tap will also greatly fluctuate with maple density.

[rhwells2003]

Cost per tap will also greatly fluctuate with maple density.

Yes this is a big piece of information that wasn't mentioned too, good call. My parents woods is very dense. We have 3,800 taps on 33 acres. Some people get 3800 taps on 60 acres. Big difference! I know this guy is looking in the 45k taps range. I'm just throwing out the numbers I'm familiar with on the scale I'm familiar with.

If we're talking sap collection only too trucking should be brought up. Is this sap being trucked to his sugar house else where? Or is he selling the sap, and the person buying the sap is trucking it? 45k taps, your looking at possibly 900,000 of raw sap. That's a lot of trucking. If that were the case I would purchase an RO and sweeten the raw sap before I trucked it. Save a lot of trucking if your trucking 10% sap vs 1.5-2%

[GeneralStark]

Then there is the cost or revenue from the forest management that may need to be done prior to even setting up the tubing. Citing the example given of 3300 taps on 33 acres, that is 115 taps/acre which is a bit too dense in terms of long term growth rates. A crop tree release prior to setting up the tubing could yield some saw logs and firewood, the sale of which could pay for the job, road construction, and then some, and then yield higher sap sugar content and overall yields down the road.

Many producers look at management on a 10 year cycle. A thinning prior to setting up the tubing, and then every ten years (if necessary) as tubing is replaced.

But, there are many that just see the number of potential taps and ignore the benefits of good long term management. This can be an additional cost, but it can also be an additional revenue generator and increase yields dramatically in the long term.

[DrTimPerkins]

But, there are many that just see the number of potential taps and ignore the benefits of good long term management. This can be an additional cost, but it can also be an additional revenue generator and increase yields dramatically in the long term.

+1 Producers should always consider any forest management activities as one of the first steps in any tubing/retubing plan.