Frozen Pans

[danno]

I see others post concerns about popping pans due to frozen sap. I've never drained my pans and they have froze good and solid, as they are now. I see others drain their pans.

What the liklihood of cracking a pan due to frozen sap? Anybody ever split one?

I have an old english tin flue pan and ss syrup pan.

Should be interesting the next time I cook down. Right now everything is frozen. Pans, float boxes, gravity tank, storage tank. At least the sap will be fresh.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

If it is cold enough to freeze, build a small fire for a few minutes every couple of days. I never drain my pans, just fire them for a few minutes when neccessary and yes it will bust your flues. Not likely to hurt the syrup pan because of the higher sugar content and room for the ice to move, but there is not as much room in the flue pan, especially in a drop flue.

[Lance]

I'm running a 2 1/2 x 8 Leader Revolution drop flue, wood fired. Pans are sweet, syrup pan is almost syrup. But...... the forecast for Tues. night is 10 below. I've never had to drain my pans before but I've never had the temp get down to below zero, either. What's the consensus about draining pans when it gets REAL cold?

[mountainvan]

I'm not telling anyone what to do, I don't want to be held liable if a pan busts, but.... I had sap in my evaporator from Jan.- march, and it was real cold in feb. and I had no problem with damage to my pans, but.... my pans are welded not soldered.

[oneoldsap]

I don't know if I've seen sweet pans subjected to below zero temps before. One thing is for sure, they won't freeze and break if they are empty. It's one of those things that are much easier to prevent than to cure. At below zero temperatures You would want to put a little fire under your pan several times a day, and don't forget the nights.

[ennismaple]

We drained ours on Friday because of the really cold forecast over the next 5 days. We're not willing to risk busting a pan and ruining our season. The added benefit is we wash the pans too so we'll make better syrup when the sap runs again.

[maplehound]

I have asked other sugar makers about this in the past and a couple of them told me that the manufacturers design them so the ice pushes up not out on the flues. I am not sure I believe that but I have never had too much trouble letting mine just sit. If it did get to cold I would put a heat lamp insde my arch for an added protection.

[Pete33Vt]

Its a matter of taste I guess. I know from experiance that flue pans will pop when frozen, especially if they are older english tin. Last year my cousins pans popped and took a while and alot of money to get them replaced all the while sap was pouring into gathering tanks. Yes they could be drained out, but I am not setup to do that this year. Plus I don't mind going to the sugarhouse and lighting a small fire. Gives me time to cleanup and think about modificaions I want to do for next season.

[WF MASON]

I've seen and repaired more than one flue drain that wasn't left open , either the rain came in during the fall or snow blew in and melted filling the drain , then it froze. This makes a square drain tube round in a hurry. Its the worst leak(s) possible, spend 30 minutes and drain'um.
For this reason only , I hate drop flues.

[tappin&sappin]

I have a homemade 2x6. They don't have drains in the flue pan. So, I haven't drained the sap/almost syrup from the pans.

Everything started freezing up pretty good the other day, including the flues. Had two heat lamps (tractor supply for raising chickens) laying around and put one in the firebox one on the backside of the flues (right under the stack).

No more ice. Water is cool to the touch, but not frozen.

[cheesegenie]

Me too. Friday I emptied everything out, left all valves open. Very cold
again, and didn't want to take a chance. All I could do to scratch up
enough money to buy the new pan in the first place.

[parsissn]

If you'd just make your pans out of 3/16" SS plate like mine you don't have to think about freezing! lol I don't worry about it much but if it's going to be very cold I do drain the flues. I use a (new) hand squeeze siphon they sell for kerosene transfer. Works great, is quick and no need for drains in the flues.

[3% Solution]

Hi Lance,
I will usually start a small fire in the fire box every day or so.
Got to watch that cause after a while your evaperator will get low and if you have a soldiered pan you could melt the soldier.
Just once have I pumped my flue pan out, the sap level was getting low and it was going to be cold for a couple of weeks.
I will do a small fire tomorrow morning and maybe one tomorrow night to hold till warmer temps on Wednesday.
That's what we do.
Good luck!

Dave

[maple flats]

On my old 2x6 drop flue I drained if extended cold was comming, no drain, I used a small pump with a suction able to fit down in the flues. The 3x8 raised flue I now have has a drain, I drain AND then pump any that remains but might not pump next time because when I pumped out what remained in a 3x6 raised flue pan and then un pluged the pump to inspect the pan, a little still flowed out the drain so I am thinking the drain gets enough out. If you drain don't make the same mistake I did last night. I started the drain and had about 20 gal out when I remembered I had not closed the supply valve yet. Then I had to get out another barrel to pump into because I had too much volumn. I use half barrels to pump into and they give me a good taper so if freezing gets bad it just pushes the ice up a little as it expands. I do not seperate the syrup pan from the sap pan contents but might start for grade. Mixing seems to boil well and I get a good gradient established quite soon when I start boiling again, but I think grade might likely drop slightly

[danno]

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I started a small fire this evening to unfreeze the pans. I was a bit nervous hoping I would not pop anything. I think I'm ok but willl know for sure tomorrow am.

[tapper]

I left my syrup pan open so the condensed sugar could reestablish itsef evenly through out both pans last wed. knowing its was going to freeze. The syrup pan is froze pretty much solid but the heavier sugar settled into the flues. The flue pan has about 1/2 " of slushy ice on top and the flues are still liquid after 5 days of temps in the teens and twentys. I did this with my 2x6 with solderd pans year after year with no ill effects. I have no reason to do this on this evaporator because it can easily be drained where the 2x6 couldnt. I am passing along what has worked for me but not recomending anyone try it. Every situation is different.

[royalmaple]

You can also put a salamander heater in front of the arch to get some heat up through the rig. I did this yesterday and melted everything just fine, also left the cap on my stack to keep the heat in.

[Lance]

Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions. Being as how it's the beginning of the season and it's a brand new (to us) evaporator, it just didn't make sense not to drain it. So I fired it up yesterday afternoon, got everything melted and drained it off. It probably would've been OK but the risk of seriously damaging the evap compared to the little work and time involved to prevent it made it a no brainer for me. Plus, like ennismaple, we got a chance to clean the pans and get everything ship-shape for the deluge of sap we're all gonna get starting tomorrow or Thursday. If we had electricity at the sugarhouse, I might've gone with some heat lamps under the pans but no such luck. Again, many thanks to all who shared their wisdom.