Permeate Tank Questions

[pls009]

Do most people use a plastic tank for their permeate or do you use a stainless tank? The reason I ask is that with sap tanks I need to clean them all the time and since I don't have a well or running water where I'm at, I kinda want to hoard the RO water to be able to use for cleaning sap tanks, etc. Does the RO water get nasty after a few day's or is it so clean that it stays good?

[wiam]

If your RO is working like it should your permeate will be fine for weeks. I use permeate for washing tanks with my pressure washer. All my permeate tanks are plastic.

[NH Maplemaker]

I use a 1500 gal plastic permeate tank and have saved permeate for week with out any problem !

[markcasper]

Do most people use a plastic tank for their permeate or do you use a stainless tank? The reason I ask is that with sap tanks I need to clean them all the time and since I don't have a well or running water where I'm at, I kinda want to hoard the RO water to be able to use for cleaning sap tanks, etc. Does the RO water get nasty after a few day's or is it so clean that it stays good?

When the sap starts getting lower quality (more bacteria) the saved permeate starts to get a little murky after a few days. If you are being inspected by the government they do not approve of washing all the equipment with permeate, you'll have to have a source of clean, tested, potable water is what the state says.

[mellondome]

If your permeate is getting murky, you are passing something through besides water or your tanks wernt clean to start with. I hold permeate in a stainless tank to use for the preseason wash/rinse. 9 months later it is still like it just flowed from the ro. Pure water clear.

[maple flats]

I also use a SS tank and the permeate stays clear and fresh all summer. I drain any that is left before a freeze just to be safe. I agree, if your permeate gets murky you have an issue, either the RO has got problems or the tank was not clean to start. Mine is in a 1000 gal Surge tank and all openings are plugged. No problem keeping permeate long term.

[jmayerl]

When the sap starts getting lower quality (more bacteria) the saved permeate starts to get a little murky after a few days. If you are being inspected by the government they do not approve of washing all the equipment with permeate, you'll have to have a source of clean, tested, potable water is what the state says.
Correct, Wisconsin does not allow the use of permeate for holding and then cleaning of equipment. It is only allowed for the immediate backwash of RO.

[markcasper]

I also use a SS tank and the permeate stays clear and fresh all summer.

Maybe its time for Dr. Tim to chime in because I don't think anything is wrong with my RO. Your permeate may be clear but it sure is not fresh and that is why Wisconsin does not allow it to be used after 24 hours. The end of season nasty sap will end up have a slight , and I mean slight unclear tone too it. Of course if the tank was not sufficiently cleaned prior the cloudiness will be worse. There is a minute amount of sugar that will pass in any RO, enough for the bacteria to grow and make it SLIGHTLY cloudy and especially with the end of season sap. I hope you throw some concentrate down the drain even if you are preflushing with year old permeate each spring.

[Diesel Pro]

I'm small scale and I do not have permeate specific tanks except for maybe one. I collect in my two 65 gallon poly tanks in my Ranger and also have a 125 on the porch that I hold in. I just do a permeate rinse of my tanks (fill them full then transfer to another) and so long as I do my part in good housekeeping and don't try to hold sap or concentrate too long I'm fine.

[pls009]

When the sap starts getting lower quality (more bacteria) the saved permeate starts to get a little murky after a few days. If you are being inspected by the government they do not approve of washing all the equipment with permeate, you'll have to have a source of clean, tested, potable water is what the state says.


Thanks Mark - good advice that I didn't know about Wi - I hope to be able to pass an inspection. I don't have a well at the shack and will have to have a separate clean water tank and just bring in some city water or well water for that purpose.

[Maple Man 85]

Correct, Wisconsin does not allow the use of permeate for holding and then cleaning of equipment. It is only allowed for the immediate backwash of RO.

On the topic of WI regulations and potable water in the sugar house is the waste water from cleaning required to have a holding/septic tank or can it be drained out with the permeate? Anyone know the regulations on grey water?

[markcasper]

On the topic of WI regulations and potable water in the sugar house is the waste water from cleaning required to have a holding/septic tank or can it be drained out with the permeate? Anyone know the regulations on grey water?

I don't know of any regulations regarding that, but don't tell anybody or there will be. Things are definately turning into a nanny state when you now have people worrying about having a septic field for washing the sap tanks out.

[Maple Man 85]

I don't know of any regulations regarding that, but don't tell anybody or there will be. Things are definately turning into a nanny state when you now have people worrying about having a septic field for washing the sap tanks out.

Thanks for the response Mark, simply asking because I'm building a sugar house with drains in the floor for washing the equipment and didn't want a building inspector to tell me I'm doing something wrong and get cited. I wonder where a person could find out without asking too many questions.

[markcasper]

I'd start by asking someone in the field who is not bias, starting with Joe Polak since you are from Merrill. The food inspectors have not mentioned anything of the sort, but they want to know what goes on with the permeate. Whether that means anything or not at this point is pure speculation.

[Maple Man 85]

I'd start by asking someone in the field who is not bias, starting with Joe Polak since you are from Merrill. The food inspectors have not mentioned anything of the sort, but they want to know what goes on with the permeate. Whether that means anything or not at this point is pure speculation.

Good call Mark, I plan on going to Maple Hollow for their open house.

[markcasper]

Good call Mark, I plan on going to Maple Hollow for their open house.

FYI, the inspector was just at my place this morning, he did not like the drain for the hand sink leading to the drain in the floor. He told me either plumb it in to the floor drain via the pipe from the other sink, or run it outside onto the ground would be fine. So I'm thinking at this point its not an issue. Say hello to Joe from me.