Newbie questions for michigan

[IndianCreek]

Hello This is my first post on maple trader. I got started this yr when my 13 yr old son watched some youtube videos on tapping trees. He came to me asking questions and the next thing I know he was out buying taps and buckets with his own money. He came home with $45 in equipment including 12 taps.....he asked if he could tap the lone maple tree in the front yard. My reaction was sure but not 12 times! I ended up taking him to my fathers woodlot full of maples and I bought him a steam pan and we boiled down 4 120z bottles on the stove in the kitchen. We are hooked now!

I am really excited in my sons enthusiasm about this so I am making up plans for a small arch probably barrel type with steam pans but I am not certain yet. I am also really interested in the homemade RO systems. I am looking at this as a great opportunity for a father son project over the summer and a way to keep him off the couch playing video games. My son raises chickens to sell eggs, grows corn for a sweetcorn stand so this fits right in with his other projects for side money. We are going to have access to atleast 50 trees and possibly as many as 200.

Now you know my story here are my questions...

I am making a business plan with him for the costs of building different types of archs and RO systems. I am showing him the costs of various types of systems and how much syrup he would have to sell with each to break even. This is also an exercise in being frugal. The more he can be creative in finding cheap or free materials the more profit he can gain. My question is in selling. He has a few farmers markets he can sell at and also his home stand. If he makes more than he can sell can a home producer sell to the big companies in bulk or do you have to have a license in Michigan for bulk sales? I am thinking like 10-15 gallons not a lot of bulk sales. also for those of you that bottle and sell do you store in bulk and bottle throughout the year or bottle all as you make it during the season? I am assuming bottling after the sap stops flowing makes the most sense.



Thanks for reading I am looking forward to your responses....this is such a great site!

Dan

[David in MI]

Welcome to the forum, neighbor! We live in Ortonville, not far from you at all.

Your son sounds like a fine young man and I love the idea of father/son time with his interest in maple syrup. I have three daughters who are all involved in our operation, sometimes willingly, other times not so much. :)

Touch base with me sometime as I'd love to meet your son and show him our operation. Our setup is nothing special but I find that I always learn something new when I visit another sugarmaker's operation.

[Cedar Eater]

Do you have an FDA compliant kitchen for processing? Michigan's laws are kinda silly about maple syrup processing. If your gross sales are less than $15K per year, you're exempt from licensing under the Michigan Food Laws, but not exempt from complying with their building requirements. You're not covered by the Cottage Food Law, which would allow you to finish in a residential kitchen. You would have to do all the processing in a sugar house that met FDA standards, but you could then label your products similar to cottage foods, and you could also sell them in retail stores (unlike cottage foods).

[claystroup]

Hi Dan,

Welcome to the Maple Syrup hobby (disease)! I live nearby in Almont and 2016 was my first year making maple syrup and I made 16 pints off 20 taps. Planning on tapping 50 trees next year and adding a larger evaporator. Let me know if I can help in any way. Clay Stroup's Sugar Bush, Almont, MI

[IndianCreek]

Hey thanks for the invite. I am sure we will be taking you up on that. I am guessing your season is pretty much over this year at this point?

I have two sons and a daughter one son is older and will be off to college next year....my daughter thinks we are a little odd for being as into maple syrup as we are. The boys and I went to nelsons farm a couple weeks ago for the open house. That got my older son really interested in the hobby as well. You are right about learning when you see the operation in person. I could have sat there all day and talked with Gerald about his operation if it weren't so busy that day.

[woodey24]

I was new to the syrup fun this year as well. We made a home made arch and bought pans off of the classifieds on here. Sounds like your son does have a good amount of ambition. Below is a link to a syrup supply store in Okemos, which is about 15 minutes east of lansing. A saturday drive could let you see the stuff first hand and I have found the prices good and they are very willing to help. I am hoping to go to the open house they have in the fall. You will find all kinds of great help on here, just post your questions and be prepared to answer questions about your questions before you will get real help. I only plan on making syrup for myself and family so no help to the selling stuff but there is a business section on the forum that could help you greatly. I will keep an eye out for any help that a novice may give you and chime in.

http://www.sugarbushsupplies.com/

[IndianCreek]

Do you have an FDA compliant kitchen for processing? Michigan's laws are kinda silly about maple syrup processing. If your gross sales are less than $15K per year, you're exempt from licensing under the Michigan Food Laws, but not exempt from complying with their building requirements. You're not covered by the Cottage Food Law, which would allow you to finish in a residential kitchen. You would have to do all the processing in a sugar house that met FDA standards, but you could then label your products similar to cottage foods, and you could also sell them in retail stores (unlike cottage foods).

You are right about silly, Technically you don't have to have an FDA approved kitchen. The label you are forced to put on your product even has to say that. Their rule even says that the nature of the processing for maple syrup and honey cannot be done in a kitchen.....because collection of it is an outdoor activity in itself. It doesn't say your sugar house has to meet FDA standards it says you have to process in a facility that meets basic processing standards outlined in mi food law. So the question then lies what standards are the basic standards? You can read the rule book it doesn't say which ones are the basic ones and which ones aren't. There are some rules in there that are very basic like you have to have enough room in the facility to package onsite. one rule says there has to be a plan for processing and packaging and the people doing the job have to be trained. The building has to meet local construction codes etc....are those the "basic" rules? your guess is as good as mine.

You are exempt from inspection and licensing until you hit $1501 in sales so I am not sure why they even put the basic standard clause in there to begin with. One site I read said it was only protect the small guys from the FDA. supposedly it is the FDA that objected to Syrup being tied to cottage industry law. So MI added the separate exemption to keep the feds off our backs. I am not sure if that is true or not.

[IndianCreek]

thanks for the the input I have been on their site a couple times. A drive over there is a really good idea though. I will have to check out their hours of operation in the off season.

Thanks
Dan

[IndianCreek]

Nice to meet you. I was checking out some of your posts earlier and I noticed your location. We are close. What did you boil on for this season?

Dan

Edit: this response was to clay stroups post, I thought I replied with quote but I guess I misclicked.

[claystroup]

Hi Dan,

I purchased a arch with a 20" x 38" flat pan off Craigslist that I used this year that would boil about 5 to 6 gph. It was good for my 20 taps I did this year but my goal is to be at 100 taps in 2-3 years so I decided to upgrade for next year and have ordered a Bill Mason 2 x 5 arch/pan setup with blower that should boil about 18 to 20 gph. I boil outside so I need to be as efficient as possible. I have about 50 trees to tap between my house and my 2 neighbors and am currently looking for an accessible hardwoods with a lot of sugar maples in the Almont area that I can lease taps on or trade some syrup for. I have caught the maple sugaring disease pretty bad and want to have a nice smaller setup (150-200 taps max) with a dedicated sugar shack eventually.

Clay Stroup
Almont, MI
Stroup's Sugar Bush

[Cedar Eater]

You are right about silly, Technically you don't have to have an FDA approved kitchen. The label you are forced to put on your product even has to say that. Their rule even says that the nature of the processing for maple syrup and honey cannot be done in a kitchen.....because collection of it is an outdoor activity in itself. It doesn't say your sugar house has to meet FDA standards it says you have to process in a facility that meets basic processing standards outlined in mi food law. So the question then lies what standards are the basic standards? You can read the rule book it doesn't say which ones are the basic ones and which ones aren't. There are some rules in there that are very basic like you have to have enough room in the facility to package onsite. one rule says there has to be a plan for processing and packaging and the people doing the job have to be trained. The building has to meet local construction codes etc....are those the "basic" rules? your guess is as good as mine.

You are exempt from inspection and licensing until you hit $1501 in sales so I am not sure why they even put the basic standard clause in there to begin with. One site I read said it was only protect the small guys from the FDA. supposedly it is the FDA that objected to Syrup being tied to cottage industry law. So MI added the separate exemption to keep the feds off our backs. I am not sure if that is true or not.

Yeah, your kitchen doesn't have to be FDA approved, but it has to be compliant with the Michigan Food Law requirements which would make it FDA compliant. The basic requirements are the same requirements that cover any food processing not exempted from the Michigan Food Laws by the Cottage Food Law or other exemptions. They're not as stringent as restaurant licenses, which cover consumption on premises. It's deliberately circular so the FDA can't come down on the state for having lax public safety standards, but it also can't harass the processors due to the license exemption. I doubt there's a small scale sugar house in the entire state that is FDA compliant without also getting the state business license and inspections.

[Tweegs]

Dan,
First, let me say welcome!

Regarding the Farmer’s market…
The inspectors ran a sweep of our market last year. What they were most interested in with us is that we were labeled properly. The “Not produced in” sticker was the #1 item, and they checked every bottle for it. They also wanted to see our business name, address and phone number on each bottle. The only thing they got us on was that they wanted the size of the container marked somewhere on the container (8 oz, 12 oz, half gallon, gallon, etc.). Most of ours already did, but our 8 oz glass containers did not.
They said even hand written on a sticker would suffice.

Being new to the game, I would invite you to check out the Michigan Maple Syrup Association’s web site:
http://www.mi-maplesyrup.com/
The middle of January each year we hold a conference in the Mt. Pleasant area. This is a one day event that gets everyone caught up on the latest news, laws and trends in the business. There are breakout sessions that cover varied topics, all of which are designed to help you grow as a producer and become more profitable. Many of the State’s equipment suppliers are represented at this event and are more than willing to chew the fat on any subject you like.

The fall tour happens in the Sept/Oct time frame. This is a one or two day event where we tour a handful of sugaring operations in different parts of the State each year. Last year was up in the UP, while the year before, if memory serves, was in your area. It’s a load of fun seeing how producers large and small tackle different problems, issues, obstacles, hurdles. We treat it as a mini vacation.

Of course, kids of all ages are welcome at these events.

[IndianCreek]

Dan,
First, let me say welcome!

Regarding the Farmer’s market…
The inspectors ran a sweep of our market last year. What they were most interested in with us is that we were labeled properly. The “Not produced in” sticker was the #1 item, and they checked every bottle for it. They also wanted to see our business name, address and phone number on each bottle. The only thing they got us on was that they wanted the size of the container marked somewhere on the container (8 oz, 12 oz, half gallon, gallon, etc.). Most of ours already did, but our 8 oz glass containers did not.
They said even hand written on a sticker would suffice.

Being new to the game, I would invite you to check out the Michigan Maple Syrup Association’s web site:
http://www.mi-maplesyrup.com/
The middle of January each year we hold a conference in the Mt. Pleasant area. This is a one day event that gets everyone caught up on the latest news, laws and trends in the business. There are breakout sessions that cover varied topics, all of which are designed to help you grow as a producer and become more profitable. Many of the State’s equipment suppliers are represented at this event and are more than willing to chew the fat on any subject you like.

The fall tour happens in the Sept/Oct time frame. This is a one or two day event where we tour a handful of sugaring operations in different parts of the State each year. Last year was up in the UP, while the year before, if memory serves, was in your area. It’s a load of fun seeing how producers large and small tackle different problems, issues, obstacles, hurdles. We treat it as a mini vacation.

Of course, kids of all ages are welcome at these events.

Thanks for the input! I have been on the assoc website but I wasn't aware of the mt pleasant event. I will definitely be interested in checking that out.

Dan

[IndianCreek]

Yeah, your kitchen doesn't have to be FDA approved, but it has to be compliant with the Michigan Food Law requirements which would make it FDA compliant. The basic requirements are the same requirements that cover any food processing not exempted from the Michigan Food Laws by the Cottage Food Law or other exemptions. They're not as stringent as restaurant licenses, which cover consumption on premises. It's deliberately circular so the FDA can't come down on the state for having lax public safety standards, but it also can't harass the processors due to the license exemption. I doubt there's a small scale sugar house in the entire state that is FDA compliant without also getting the state business license and inspections.

When I reread my post it came across as argumentative and that wasn't really my intent so I apologize if it read that way. Thanks for the reply on the subject I appreciate the dialogue.

I don't think it would be too tough to come up with a facility that meets the basic food law requirements. I was impressed with some of the stuff I saw at my first sugarbush tour with how they handled RO permeate for a pure water source and channeled the steam off the evap as a source for hot water. I enjoy learning from resourceful people and farmers can be some of the best at it.

Dan

[Cedar Eater]

When I reread my post it came across as argumentative and that wasn't really my intent so I apologize if it read that way. Thanks for the reply on the subject I appreciate the dialogue.

I don't think it would be too tough to come up with a facility that meets the basic food law requirements. I was impressed with some of the stuff I saw at my first sugarbush tour with how they handled RO permeate for a pure water source and channeled the steam off the evap as a source for hot water. I enjoy learning from resourceful people and farmers can be some of the best at it.

Dan

I didn't take it as argumentative, I just wanted to make sure the difference between approval and compliant was understood. The issue comes up here fairly often with people who want to evap outside and then finish inside and then sell their syrup. When you go to make a compliant kitchen, you almost always have to get a permit from the local permitting authority and there are horror stories about how even one complaint from a neighbor about smoke or steam or activity late at night can turn into a cease and desist order for violating zoning laws.

[elitts]

Sorry to necro an old post, but I was trying to hash out the Michigan laws and saw this and figured it's probably still relevant.


there are horror stories about how even one complaint from a neighbor about smoke or steam or activity late at night can turn into a cease and desist order for violating zoning laws.

If anyone in Michigan ends up with complaints, be aware that sap harvesting and syrup production are considered agriculture activities and are protected by the Michigan Right to Farm Act. When it comes to zoning, if any farming activity is permitted within the relevant zoning class, then syrup production can't be restricted. There is even some question as to whether or not ANY zoning restrictions can be applied to farming activities (it hasn't been fully tested in court). So if your local zoning official starts being a buttinski, start talking about filing a complaint under the MI RTF act.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/right_to_farm_act_can_preempt_local_regulation_aut hority_but_not_all_local