Sunrise vs. Smokey Lake

[Maple Man 85]

Definitely going to purchase a new rig for next season and would like to make the purchase from either Sunrise or Smokey Lake but am split on the decision. Any preference from the maple community? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[Moser's Maple]

I personally don't own either company. Both look like they have outstanding pan craftmanship, but sunrise without a doubt has the superior arch design, and price wise they are so similar it isn't funny

[PerryFamily]

I'd check with Thor Equipment too
I'm getting new pans from them and price against SL they were still the better deal. Mostly due to exchange rate , 20% early season discount and the fact that I can go pick them up.
Worth a shot though

[mudr]

I vote Chevy!


All joking aside, I can't really give a strong voice one way or the other. I did just put down a deposit with smoky for a 2x6. Reviews are generally VERY good, quality appears to be there, and it was a better price than sunrise. And smokys price included shipping to my door. You probably can't go wrong either way.

[lastwoodsman]

There are many good manufactures out there. I am on my 5th year of Smoky Lake 2x6 pans with a reversible flow syrup pan and their auto draw off. They have been excellent pans and are very efficient. I only wish they had been making arches when I bought my pans. A new arch is probably in my future somewhere. You can't go wrong with Smoky Lake pans.
Woodsman

[FDA]

Sunrise, hands down. Price is better( apples for apples ), more boiling surface area , realistic evaporation rates, true gasification arches are available, one side reverse flow pan that actually works, and they have been building pans and making syrup longer than shoemaker has been alive. Did I miss anything?

[motowbrowne]

Sunrise, hands down. Price is better( apples for apples ), more boiling surface area , realistic evaporation rates, true gasification arches are available, one side reverse flow pan that actually works, and they have been building pans and making syrup longer than shoemaker has been alive. Did I miss anything?

Oh snap!

If you're in Merrill, I'd probably got with sunrise. Joe at maple hollow is real nice to deal with. If you need something for your rig during the season, he's right there. Jim isn't too far away, but might be super busy.

[lastwoodsman]

My experience this year with Jim's pans on a old waterloo arch\ no blower\no aof.

This year 2000 gallons of sap\ close to fifty gallons of syrup\ reverse flow works perfect\ 2% sap ro'ed to 6.5/7.

Never boiled over 5 hours, most the time less-- about two fireplace cords or less of wood burned.

Jim has always responded quickly when I needed him

Woodsman

[Urban Sugarmaker]

I personally don't own either company. Both look like they have outstanding pan craftmanship, but sunrise without a doubt has the superior arch design, and price wise they are so similar it isn't funny

I am in the same Smoky vs. Sunrise decision process. I saw both at Verona this year. What is it about the Sunrise arch design that you feel is superior?

[FDA]

My experience this year with Jim's pans on a old waterloo arch\ no blower\no aof.

This year 2000 gallons of sap\ close to fifty gallons of syrup\ reverse flow works perfect\ 2% sap ro'ed to 6.5/7.

Never boiled over 5 hours, most the time less-- about two fireplace cords or less of wood burned.

Jim has always responded quickly when I needed him

Woodsman

What reverse flow do you have ?
1) Do you have to physically unhook the pan and manually rotate it?
2) Is it the Leader revolution copy that uses cheaper ball valves rather than sanitary butterfly valves and the syrup tends to cool off in the channel that is along the rail ?
3) Or is it the one that mimics the Sunrise OSD other than Smokey has the syrup going on the outside ( cooling off )of the pan in a transfer pipe, using same ball valves as well?

[RustyBuckets]

I am in the same Smoky vs. Sunrise decision process. I saw both at Verona this year. What is it about the Sunrise arch design that you feel is superior?
Looks like Sunrise arch is a much better one by the pictures and the ones I have seen. Im still confused how all of a sudden it became revolutionary to add a blower on an arch with a draft door under the grates so it can be run naturally or with a blower. I think thats been around since right after the indians stopped using hollowed out trees to boils sap in. Plus there seems to be no air over fire on it where Sunrise has that feature offered. Then there is the galvanized arch sides and stack that is a thing of the past these days too.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Looks like Sunrise arch is a much better one by the pictures and the ones I have seen. Im still confused how all of a sudden it became revolutionary to add a blower on an arch with a draft door under the grates so it can be run naturally or with a blower. I think thats been around since right after the indians stopped using hollowed out trees to boils sap in. Plus there seems to be no air over fire on it where Sunrise has that feature offered. Then there is the galvanized arch sides and stack that is a thing of the past these days too.

I think the difference with the SL SilverPlate is the extra large firebox and the perforated grates that produce turbulence to help burn more gases. I asked Jim about AOF for the 2x6 and I was told it does not work that well. I have read other threads on gasification that are consistent with that statement in regard to smaller rigs. Another difference with SL is that raised flue arches, unfortunately not shown on their website, are built without a duct under the flue plan. The hot gases have no way to get to the stack other than through the flues. If you search for maple equipment on Craigslist and find his ads, you will see what I mean. Cool design, but I think the same can be accomplished with a ramp.

Here is a link to a local SL ad. Pictures of the large rig with 2 syrup pans show what I mean by "no ducting" under the flue pan.http://buffalo.craigslist.org/grd/5475882652.html

[RustyBuckets]

I think the difference with the SL SilverPlate is the extra large firebox and the perforated grates that produce turbulence to help burn more gases. I asked Jim about AOF for the 2x6 and I was told it does not work that well. I have read other threads on gasification that are consistent with that statement in regard to smaller rigs. Another difference with SL is that raised flue arches, unfortunately not shown on their website, are built without a duct under the flue plan. The hot gases have no way to get to the stack other than through the flues. If you search for maple equipment on Craigslist and find his ads, you will see what I mean. Cool design, but I think the same can be accomplished with a ramp.

Here is a link to a local SL ad. Pictures of the large rig with 2 syrup pans show what I mean by "no ducting" under the flue pan.
AOF does not work well?????????????? It doesnt work well if you put a squirrel cage blower on the aof and not a high pressure blower. I cant believe I just read that. And all raised flue arches on the market are designed so the hot gasses pass through the flues and not under them. That is what the front ramp and rear ramp does, plus the insulation under the pans on top of the tunnel under the flues hold the heat inside the arch so the sap absorbs it instead of heat escaping. Not to mention the newer more efficient higher heat output arches have much larger fireboxes, these larer fireboxes now extend well into the flue pan some up to 2/3rds the length of the arch.

[mapledavefarm]

What it all boils down to for me is the lack of quality from Smokey lake that's starting to show up on this site. I think his overhead is getting the best of him and to save money he's cutting corners on the martials he buying. You have this supposed food grade stainless that's rusting.... http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?28276-Smokey-lake-water-jacketed-bottler-review...RUST-and-more! and this guys hood that doesn't sit flat..... http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?28342-Thinking-of-down-sizing-what-is-the-highest-evaporation-rated-2x6&p=307062#post307062 With that being said I have to go with Sunrise as I agree with a few here that have said " anything but Smokey ".

[n8hutch]

What it all boils down to for me is the lack of quality from Smokey lake that's starting to show up on this site. I think his overhead is getting the best of him and to save money he's cutting corners on the martials he buying. You have this supposed food grade stainless that's rusting.... http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?28276-Smokey-lake-water-jacketed-bottler-review...RUST-and-more! and this guys hood that doesn't sit flat..... http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?28342-Thinking-of-down-sizing-what-is-the-highest-evaporation-rated-2x6&p=307062#post307062 With that being said I have to go with Sunrise as I agree with a few here that have said " anything but Smokey ".


Is this some kind of joke?????
I have used my Smoky lake products 2 seasons w/o issue. Definitely no rust on anything. I do know for a fact that the changed the design of the filter screen on the canner.

If anybody thinks that any of these manufacturers are never going to have a problem they are damb fools. I have seen plenty of twisted leader and cdl pans. I have also seen pictures of stainless pans that rusted through. I saw a used sunrise at Bascom's this last summer that I was none too impressed with.

They all make good stuff sometimes things just don't work out perfectly. Case in point I got a new air tight front from lapierre this year. Well it didn't fit perfectly. I had to use half a tube of black RTV to seal up a few spots. Did lapierre make it wrong or did I measure it wrong & make a poor template. Overall the thing works great & I am no worse for wear.

If any company can make 90% of there customers happy they are doing well.

[Moser's Maple]

Ok you guys are getting real technical here. I just based my opinion on simple observations.
So first I had to compare apples to apples, and pardon me from using the SBI classifieds, but it seemed to be the only place to find sunrise prices, and I'll use SL website to base the price of the silverplate because SL has a silverplate on SBI, but it's a drop flue and not raised flue which is additional.
So the plain jane silverplate raised flue off SL website with same side draw off (you may have to insert your options)
https://www.smokylakemaple.com/product/silverplate-evaporator/
$8675.00
now the sunrise panther arch which as far as i can tell would be comparable to sl silverplate arch
http://www.sugarbush.info/forsale/showproduct.php?product=583&title=2x6-sunrise-panther-raised-flue&cat=2
$6063.00
and an upgrade from both of these arches the maxiflame sunrise raised flue also from SBI classifieds
http://www.sugarbush.info/forsale/showproduct.php?product=549&title=sunrise-2x6-maxi-flame-with26quot-3b-cool-front26quot-3b&cat=2
$9054.00
so for under $500.00 you can get a complete rig with both AUF and AOF fire, cool front doors, fully enclosed evaporator that looks more modern, plus being enclosed you won't be as likely drawing in cool sugarhouse air, but will be warmer air which should help with the combustion in the arch.
the sunrise comes with steel as far as I saw comes with heavy duty steel grates, and sl arch looked like it came with the best I can describe as drilled cast iron sewage pipe grates.
I'll admit that I can be biased when it comes to sl and there stuff, but this is just pointing out the simple differences here.
so to plain and simply answer you question Urban, I feel sunrise has a superior arch just based on the fact it has both AOF/AUF, steel grates, closed cabinet. i didn't mention the enlarged fire box, and less angular ramp going to the rear flue.

[Maple Man 85]

I received quotes from both Jim directly from Smokey Maple and Joe from Maple Hollow They are comparable but from a service perspective you bring a valid point.

[wishlist]

If any company can make 90% of there customers happy they are doing well.

It's what the company does or at least attempts to do with the other 10% that's important. Your more than welcome Nate to come visit my sugarhouse anytime! Besides I need someone to help me twist my hood back in shape and so far all I get is the local landscape supplier/maple producer offering to use his backhoe .

[n8hutch]

It's what the company does or at least attempts to do with the other 10% that's important. Your more than welcome Nate to come visit my sugarhouse anytime! Besides I need someone to help me twist my hood back in shape and so far all I get is the local landscape supplier/maple producer offering to use his backhoe .

I have no doubt that your hood is twisted & I think it's unfortunate. It's Really A shame that you both couldn't come to some sort of resolution that worked out for both of you.

I was just pointing out that perfection is not obtainable all the time. Never mind shipping. That's a whole nother crap shoot. Have you ever been around a shipping facility? It is scary how they treat packages. It's a wonder anybody ever receives anything undamaged .

I just think people need to be a little more realistic some times.

In reality if your 100% concerned with service you should probably use the closest manufacturer to you and try to maintain some kind of professional relationship with them . Give-take, the customer can't take it on the nose every time & neither can the manufacturer.

[mapledavefarm]

Is this some kind of joke?????
I have used my Smoky lake products 2 seasons w/o issue. Definitely no rust on anything. I do know for a fact that the changed the design of the filter screen on the canner.

If anybody thinks that any of these manufacturers are never going to have a problem they are damb fools. I have seen plenty of twisted leader and cdl pans. I have also seen pictures of stainless pans that rusted through. I saw a used sunrise at Bascom's this last summer that I was none too impressed with.

They all make good stuff sometimes things just don't work out perfectly. Case in point I got a new air tight front from lapierre this year. Well it didn't fit perfectly. I had to use half a tube of black RTV to seal up a few spots. Did lapierre make it wrong or did I measure it wrong & make a poor template. Overall the thing works great & I am no worse for wear.

If any company can make 90% of there customers happy they are doing well.

I bet the people who started the rusty bottlers thread are not laughing at all.

The only pans I have ever seen twisted were burnt ones. This guy has a hood and claims it never fit from day one? Its obvious who's at fault here.

Since Sunrise has been making maple equipment for 40+ years I'd expect you to find some old stuff out there. How long has smokey links been around 4-5 ?

[wishlist]

I have no doubt that your hood is twisted & I think it's unfortunate. It's Really A shame that you both couldn't come to some sort of resolution that worked out for both of you.

I was just pointing out that perfection is not obtainable all the time. Never mind shipping. That's a whole nother crap shoot. Have you ever been around a shipping facility? It is scary how they treat packages. It's a wonder anybody ever receives anything undamaged .

I just think people need to be a little more realistic some times.

In reality if your 100% concerned with service you should probably use the closest manufacturer to you and try to maintain some kind of professional relationship with them . Give-take, the customer can't take it on the nose every time & neither can the manufacturer.

Never shipped Nate , can't blame that.

[lastwoodsman]

What reverse flow do you have ?
1) Do you have to physically unhook the pan and manually rotate it?
2) Is it the Leader revolution copy that uses cheaper ball valves rather than sanitary butterfly valves and the syrup tends to cool off in the channel that is along the rail ?
3) Or is it the one that mimics the Sunrise OSD other than Smokey has the syrup going on the outside ( cooling off )of the pan in a transfer pipe, using same ball valves as well?

The reverse flow is just a matter of shutting one ball valve and opening another. All on the same side. I have a four channel syrup pan, it requires not effort other than to switch the auto drawoff to the other drawoff valve. I really do not know the others you mentioned. My pipes are 1 1/4 I think he uses 1 inch now. Improvement- for sure.1419514196

[RustyBuckets]

I just think people need to be a little more realistic some times.

I have to agree with this statement 100%, not 90% or 10% but 100%, I thought it was just me but I see others have read SL ads too.

[mudr]

Jake,
I just did a similar exercise on the hobby end. 2x6 spitfire from sunurse vs 2x6 smoky lake badgerland and corsair arch.

Spitfire- 4 ft flue, 8 inch deep, *I think* 6 flues. Does not include float or stack from everything I've read (sunrise website and kaplan website). $4250

Smoky lake- stainless sides and stack (added on to make equal), 4 ft flue, 7 7-inchers, includes stack and float, $4050 shipped.

I'm a rookie, I'm not experienced enough to truly judge the better manufacturer and debate minor details. I can say that I have read many many positive reviews for SL. Not saying the negative reviews were incorrect,but the weight of evidence suggests that SL is good quality. So on the hobby end, in this specific comparison, SL is a better price. I don't think anyone, myself included, can make a statement saying that X is always cheaper than Y,it needs to be case by case. Not saying you did that either. Just another comparison.

Btw- my kid loves the maple minis.

[Moser's Maple]

Jake,
I just did a similar exercise on the hobby end. 2x6 spitfire from sunurse vs 2x6 smoky lake badgerland and corsair arch.

Spitfire- 4 ft flue, 8 inch deep, *I think* 6 flues. Does not include float or stack from everything I've read (sunrise website and kaplan website). $4250

Smoky lake- stainless sides and stack (added on to make equal), 4 ft flue, 7 7-inchers, includes stack and float, $4050 shipped.

I'm a rookie, I'm not experienced enough to truly judge the better manufacturer and debate minor details. I can say that I have read many many positive reviews for SL. Not saying the negative reviews were incorrect,but the weight of evidence suggests that SL is good quality. So on the hobby end, in this specific comparison, SL is a better price. I don't think anyone, myself included, can make a statement saying that X is always cheaper than Y,it needs to be case by case. Not saying you did that either. Just another comparison.
Btw- my kid loves the maple minis.
nah I wasn't doing price comparison, just posted those for others to see first hand on different things can break out. I was trying to answer the question of why I felt the sunrise arch was a better arch. no worries here, and glad the kids like the candy

[FDA]

The reverse flow is just a matter of shutting one ball valve and opening another. All on the same side. I have a four channel syrup pan, it requires not effort other than to switch the auto drawoff to the other drawoff valve. I really do not know the others you mentioned. My pipes are 1 1/4 I think he uses 1 inch now. Improvement- for sure.1419514196

Okay that's the Leader Revolution copy other than Leader uses sanitary butterfly valves ( more expansive and can be taken apart to clean ). what draw off do you prefer? the on the side or the back cross flow ? Can you consistently make syrup in the one on the side of the evaporator or do you prefer the on in the back where the pan is hotter ?

[n8hutch]

I knew better than to step into this thread. Just couldn't help myself.

There's lots of people out there who are happy with a certain product and probably wouldn't buy from anyone else.
Your going to find some people who are not happy. I have worked in many different retail type businesses and I can tell you for certain that 100% satisfaction is not obtainable. Everything can be improved in some way. Everybody's idea of satisfaction is different.
I buy equipment from all kinds of places.

As for your Hood Wishlist that really sucks that you didn't notice it was twisted when you picked it up. Then you could have refused it. Sounds like a bad deal all the way around. And Unfortunate as I said earlier. I would love to stop and see your sugar house some day. Trouble is I have a real hard time getting out of ME, NH, & VT, for some reason my vehicles don't like traveling too far into NY and they Definitely don't like going South. Guess I'm just a Grumpy New Englander

[Urban Sugarmaker]

AOF does not work well?????????????? It doesnt work well if you put a squirrel cage blower on the aof and not a high pressure blower. I cant believe I just read that. And all raised flue arches on the market are designed so the hot gasses pass through the flues and not under them. That is what the front ramp and rear ramp does, plus the insulation under the pans on top of the tunnel under the flues hold the heat inside the arch so the sap absorbs it instead of heat escaping. Not to mention the newer more efficient higher heat output arches have much larger fireboxes, these larer fireboxes now extend well into the flue pan some up to 2/3rds the length of the arch.

I think we had a miscommunication, since you say, "I can't believe I just read that." The squirrel cage blower on the SL rig is AUF as in air-UNDER-fire. They do not do AOF in their 2x6 rig. I think their claim is that the holes in their grates help distribute air from under the fuel to create more turbulence, and therefore more turbulence then other designs. Unrelated threads about Air-Over-Fire have made mention that true gasification with maximum efficiency is hard to achieve with 2 foot wide rigs. It has been claimed that is the reason why larger manufacturers do not make "gasification" arches smaller than 2.5x8. This is also what Jim from SL told me.

I don't really know myself, but I do know that AOF using a HIGH PRESSURE blower had a positive impact in my 2x4 when used in conjunction with my AUF squirrel cage blower. I believe this was due to extra air and turbulence. It wasn't mind blowing, but it helped with smoke and sparks. That said, Bill Mason told me that my arch was not designed for this and recommended a high output arch with thicker rails and a larger firebox to accommodate higher temperatures and air volumes with AOF/AUF for maximum efficiency.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

I'll admit that I can be biased when it comes to sl and there stuff, but this is just pointing out the simple differences here.
so to plain and simply answer you question Urban, I feel sunrise has a superior arch just based on the fact it has both AOF/AUF, steel grates, closed cabinet. i didn't mention the enlarged fire box, and less angular ramp going to the rear flue.

Thanks Jake. A lot of info there and things I didn't think about. There's a Sunrise dealer in town so I think I will be researching this more.

[mapledavefarm]

I think we had a miscommunication, since you say, "I can't believe I just read that." The squirrel cage blower on the SL rig is AUF as in air-UNDER-fire. They do not do AOF in their 2x6 rig. I think their claim is that the holes in their grates help distribute air from under the fuel to create more turbulence, and therefore more turbulence then other designs. Unrelated threads about Air-Over-Fire have made mention that true gasification with maximum efficiency is hard to achieve with 2 foot wide rigs. It has been claimed that is the reason why larger manufacturers do not make "gasification" arches smaller than 2.5x8. This is also what Jim from SL told me.

I don't really know myself, but I do know that AOF using a HIGH PRESSURE blower had a positive impact in my 2x4 when used in conjunction with my AUF squirrel cage blower. I believe this was due to extra air and turbulence. It wasn't mind blowing, but it helped with smoke and sparks. That said, Bill Mason told me that my arch was not designed for this and recommended a high output arch with thicker rails and a larger firebox to accommodate higher temperatures and air volumes with AOF/AUF for maximum efficiency.

I wouldn't expect much air to go though those little holes drilled in that water pipe with a low pressure blower. Matter of fact after a couple hours of burning wood I doubt any air gets through. Hey are you interested in a great deal on a boat I have one for sale. https://www.craigslist.org/about/best/min/1603624338.html

[lastwoodsman]

Quote Originally Posted by lastwoodsman View Post
The reverse flow is just a matter of shutting one ball valve and opening another. All on the same side. I have a four channel syrup pan, it requires not effort other than to switch the auto drawoff to the other drawoff valve. I really do not know the others you mentioned. My pipes are 1 1/4 I think he uses 1 inch now. Improvement- for sure.Attachment 14195Attachment 14196


Okay that's the Leader Revolution copy other than Leader uses sanitary butterfly valves ( more expansive and can be taken apart to clean ). what draw off do you prefer? the on the side or the back cross flow ? Can you consistently make syrup in the one on the side of the evaporator or do you prefer the on in the back where the pan is hotter ?



If your arch is bricked correctly you will not have a issue either way. I use both at different times. I will say the back pan may produce a little quicker. The Ro has made it less noticeable. This year I never switched as we had little to no sugar sand.

[FDA]

Quote Originally Posted by lastwoodsman View Post
The reverse flow is just a matter of shutting one ball valve and opening another. All on the same side. I have a four channel syrup pan, it requires not effort other than to switch the auto drawoff to the other drawoff valve. I really do not know the others you mentioned. My pipes are 1 1/4 I think he uses 1 inch now. Improvement- for sure.Attachment 14195Attachment 14196


Okay that's the Leader Revolution copy other than Leader uses sanitary butterfly valves ( more expansive and can be taken apart to clean ). what draw off do you prefer? the on the side or the back cross flow ? Can you consistently make syrup in the one on the side of the evaporator or do you prefer the on in the back where the pan is hotter ?



If your arch is bricked correctly you will not have a issue either way. I use both at different times. I will say the back pan may produce a little quicker. The Ro has made it less noticeable. This year I never switched as we had little to no sugar sand.

So you prefer the back channel and you used the back channel all of this year ?

[Urban Sugarmaker]

I wouldn't expect much air to go though those little holes drilled in that water pipe with a low pressure blower. Matter of fact after a couple hours of burning wood I doubt any air gets through. Hey are you interested in a great deal on a boat I have one for sale. https://www.craigslist.org/about/best/min/1603624338.html

I'm sure they thoroughly tested it before placing it on the market. I'd like to hear from an owner who has one and can confirm or deny what you said.

I don't know if you are joking or trying to insult me with that CL link. Before I shell out thousands of dollars on a rig, I want to be sure I will be satisfied with it. I think this thread has a lot of good thoughts and input that can be helpful to folks in their decision making. But to answer your question, I am not interested in the aircraft carrier. If I had $2,000,000 to invest, I would invest it in real estate and a huge RO so I only have to boil for 5 minutes on the kitchen stove and forget about all of this. :lol:

[RustyBuckets]

I think we had a miscommunication, since you say, "I can't believe I just read that." The squirrel cage blower on the SL rig is AUF as in air-UNDER-fire. They do not do AOF in their 2x6 rig. I think their claim is that the holes in their grates help distribute air from under the fuel to create more turbulence, and therefore more turbulence then other designs. Unrelated threads about Air-Over-Fire have made mention that true gasification with maximum efficiency is hard to achieve with 2 foot wide rigs. It has been claimed that is the reason why larger manufacturers do not make "gasification" arches smaller than 2.5x8. This is also what Jim from SL told me.

I don't really know myself, but I do know that AOF using a HIGH PRESSURE blower had a positive impact in my 2x4 when used in conjunction with my AUF squirrel cage blower. I believe this was due to extra air and turbulence. It wasn't mind blowing, but it helped with smoke and sparks. That said, Bill Mason told me that my arch was not designed for this and recommended a high output arch with thicker rails and a larger firebox to accommodate higher temperatures and air volumes with AOF/AUF for maximum efficiency.

No miscommunication. What I was saying is unless someone uses a low pressure blower for AOF that is why it wouldnt work well. AUF will increase your firebox temps, it will burn more wood. Both AUF and AOF will not only increase your firebox temps but the turbulence created over the fire with air where the fire has consumed the air from below will reignite unburnt gasses not only increasing your firebox temps even more but also allowing a longer burn time and less wood consumption than natural draft or just auf alone. Now a firebox cant in my opinion be claimed as large if its not big enough to make AOF work to its potential. I think most people that been in this game for a long time would consider a firebox that size as normal or average for a natural draft firebox. Hence why everyone else is building larger fireboxes both home builds and manufactured builds to where the firebox extends farther back in the arch. So for someone to say AOF does not work in small 2x arches is just not right. Myself at one point in time had a 2x6 and had an arch rebuilt too add AOF many years ago and it made all the difference in the world as far as GPH, wood consumption and amount of syrup I made. Im sure there is more to the story behind the claim on the bigger manufactures dont build the gasification in small arches, maybe they are not focused around the hobby side of equipment making, or maybe they feel your money is better spent going with a larer size rig than a hobby setup due to the cost of just the high pressure blower alone. But one thing Im certain of is gasification in 2x arches works and works pretty well.

[RustyBuckets]

I wouldn't expect much air to go though those little holes drilled in that water pipe with a low pressure blower. Matter of fact after a couple hours of burning wood I doubt any air gets through. Hey are you interested in a great deal on a boat I have one for sale. https://www.craigslist.org/about/best/min/1603624338.html

I dont see an ash pit on it, do you know how you are suppose to clean the ashes out from under the grates? It must accumulate under there as it falls through the holes. Do you remove the pipes to clean the ashes out?

[Urban Sugarmaker]

No miscommunication. What I was saying is unless someone uses a low pressure blower for AOF that is why it wouldnt work well. AUF will increase your firebox temps, it will burn more wood. Both AUF and AOF will not only increase your firebox temps but the turbulence created over the fire with air where the fire has consumed the air from below will reignite unburnt gasses not only increasing your firebox temps even more but also allowing a longer burn time and less wood consumption than natural draft or just auf alone. Now a firebox cant in my opinion be claimed as large if its not big enough to make AOF work to its potential. I think most people that been in this game for a long time would consider a firebox that size as normal or average for a natural draft firebox. Hence why everyone else is building larger fireboxes both home builds and manufactured builds to where the firebox extends farther back in the arch. So for someone to say AOF does not work in small 2x arches is just not right. Myself at one point in time had a 2x6 and had an arch rebuilt too add AOF many years ago and it made all the difference in the world as far as GPH, wood consumption and amount of syrup I made. Im sure there is more to the story behind the claim on the bigger manufactures dont build the gasification in small arches, maybe they are not focused around the hobby side of equipment making, or maybe they feel your money is better spent going with a larer size rig than a hobby setup due to the cost of just the high pressure blower alone. But one thing Im certain of is gasification in 2x arches works and works pretty well.

Thank you. I agree completely that a low pressure blower will not work with AOF. I'm very happy to hear you had success with AOF/gasification in a 2x6. I also agree about the "more to the story" with regard to larger manufacturers and their marketing. I just got the impression there was some engineering reason why people said gasification doesn't work as well in smaller arches. In fact, 802maples told me that true gasification does not work great in a 2x6 arch, but it would boil faster and use less wood. Sometimes you read things here and it's tough to know which way to go when you are getting ready to make a good-sized purchase. Or at the very least, you wind up confused/conflicted for a while until you research more. I'm the type of person that researches the heck out of any purchase that's more than say $1000 and is supposed to last years.

[mapledavefarm]

I'm sure they thoroughly tested it before placing it on the market. I'd like to hear from an owner who has one and can confirm or deny what you said.

I don't know if you are joking or trying to insult me with that CL link. Before I shell out thousands of dollars on a rig, I want to be sure I will be satisfied with it. I think this thread has a lot of good thoughts and input that can be helpful to folks in their decision making. But to answer your question, I am not interested in the aircraft carrier. If I had $2,000,000 to invest, I would invest it in real estate and a huge RO so I only have to boil for 5 minutes on the kitchen stove and forget about all of this. :lol:

Just saying that if you believe what this manufacture says than I have a boat for sale. Lol

Thanks rusty for pointing out that Smokey lake doesn't use air over fire or a high pressure blower with his arches. So my suspicion of magic being the driving force for smokey lake evaporators getting twice the evaporation rate of the competition is correct. I will sleep good at night now, thanks!

[n8hutch]

I dont see an ash pit on it, do you know how you are suppose to clean the ashes out from under the grates? It must accumulate under there as it falls through the holes. Do you remove the pipes to clean the ashes out?

There is virtually no ashes to clean out. I will give anyone who wishes to PM the contact Info of my friends that purchased a 2x6 silverplate this year. & they are very happy with it. They are not on the Trader. But they are probably the most particular guys I know.

They have a Dayton Blower on them not sure of the size but it puts out plenty of heat, the stack is completely blued from one season.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

i would listen to 802 before any one else here. 802 designed the intensofier he should be the one you listen too.

I think my 2x6 is pretty dam close to gasification, arch temp at rear of flu pan in my unit is (580 C) 1076F, gasification happens between 600 to 1500c depending on process. I extended my arch 2' and am blowing hot high pressure air into fire box.

[heus]

I just ordered Jim's 2.5x8 raised flue pan set with same side reverse, and his hood/preheater. It has 14 7.5" flues in a 30" wide pan. That is alot of surface area.I will be boiling on a new leader oil fired arch. I'll let everyone know next season how it goes. I have seen some Smoky Lake stuff at LEME and it was absolutely beautiful. Maybe I wont get the advertised 120gph from these pans, but I bet I come darn close.

[David in MI]

I get 50-60 with my SL 2x8. 120gph with a 2.5x8?

Heus-I was surprised to see you moving away from A&A as I remember how pleased you were with your setup.

[heus]

My A&A evaporator served me well. I made over 1100 gallons on it in 4 years. Wanted something with similar boiling rates but smaller. Also missed having welded pans with sanitary fittings. With the 14 flue 7.5" raised 5.5' long pan its supposed to have as much or more surface area than leaders max flue pan and its rated pretty close to 120 I think. David what do you have for an arch? Do you have a hood and preheater from SL?

[David in MI]

I have a Leader traditional wood-fired arch; also have hoods over the flue and syrup pans but no preheater. My stack temp runs from 600-800 or so.

[mapledavefarm]

My A&A evaporator served me well. I made over 1100 gallons on it in 4 years. Wanted something with similar boiling rates but smaller. Also missed having welded pans with sanitary fittings. With the 14 flue 7.5" raised 5.5' long pan its supposed to have as much or more surface area than leaders max flue pan and its rated pretty close to 120 I think. David what do you have for an arch? Do you have a hood and preheater from SL?

I just talked to a Leader Rep. He said the Leader Max pan has 12 flues that are 11.5 inches tall. Check my math here .... My calculator says the Leader max pan has about 24 % more surface area. The Leader rep also said the max flue 30x8 with a 5.5 foot flue pan is rated at 106 gph on the inferno arch. So using 106gph for the evaporation rate having 24% less surface area I would have to say your going to be somewhere around the 80 gph mark as long as Leaders gph number isn't inflated and or my math is not correct.