Bacterial / mold growth

[PerryFamily]

Wondering if anyone else is having trouble with mold growth in Lapierre purple or clear tubing from last year? These drops are only 2 seasons old and have about 25/30 out of 500 that already need to be replaced. Lots of the mold is right where the spout ends inside the tubing. Wondering whit might have caused this. Vacuum is on all season and I pull taps under vacuum as well. Maybe I'm over thinking it140961409614097

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

yes I want to say I noticed it this year when we first started tapping

[madmapler]

I left my drop lines unplugged last year and there was absolutely none of that.

[woodey24]

I have had it almost seal my tubing closed. I thought it was tubing. I used fountain plastic tubing this year. It's my first year and it was free.

[Maplewalnut]

I had a problem with Lapierre green tubing and no longer buy it for that reason

[PerryFamily]

Sean- I was thinking about doing that but pull under vacuum and didn't want to go back to un plug all of them.

It definitely seems like it's always in Lapierre purple or clear
Literally zero in the CDL tubing

I've flagged them all for replacement but it ticks me off because they are only 2 years old

Thanks for the responses

[Michael Greer]

I don't have any tubing at all, but when temperature reach 65 to 70 degrees, I see bacterial growth on everything. Plastic tanks are the worst, but even my galvanized tank is looking pretty funky. Time to clean.

[DrTimPerkins]

Growth of various things (bacteria, yeast, mold, algae) in tubing systems is not at all rare. We've seen it in all different kinds of tubing. Semi-rigid seems a little more prone to it then rigid does. Happens where water or sap pools or you get condensation. Anywhere there is enough liquid to grow, stuff grows. Very frequently stuff is there even if you can't see it.

[unc23win]

Growth of various things (bacteria, yeast, mold, algae) in tubing systems is not at all rare. We've seen it in all different kinds of tubing. Semi-rigid seems a little more prone to it then rigid does. Happens where water or sap pools or you get condensation. Anywhere there is enough liquid to grow, stuff grows. Very frequently stuff is there even if you can't see it.

More so the installation causing pooling or condensation rather than any particular brand of tubing correct?

Almost any mold showing in my tubing is where I used and end line hook with plug and went around the end tree which ironically was my new method. I use to use a Y on end trees and I have tubing much older with a Y with no visible mold.

[DrTimPerkins]

More so the installation causing pooling or condensation rather than any particular brand of tubing correct?

Correct. However it can occur almost anywhere where sap pools or condensation occurs. Often it is found on the droplines plugged into tees where the drops curl around. See the attached photo below. Lots of snot where condensation formed in the line and stuff started to grow. This is a drop that had been sanitizer cleaned by sucking in a solution through the spout the previous year. This is what it looked like when I went to tap it in this year.


Almost any mold showing in my tubing is where I used and end line hook with plug and went around the end tree which ironically was my new method. I use to use a Y on end trees and I have tubing much older with a Y with no visible mold.

Visible or not visible.....there are plenty of things growing in maple tubing. It may "look" clean, but when we test tubing that has been used (even if cleaned and then left for a period of time), there is ALWAYS stuff growing in there....whether you can see it or not doesn't seem to matter much.

[johnallin]

Pretty sure I'll have mold in my lines and am wondering what you guys are doing to evacuate 3/16", or 5/16 for that matter, tube so as not to see what Dr. Tim has in his picture.

With no sap coming into the tube, I have no vacuum, when I pull taps nothing seems to move and drops don't drain. This was my first attempt at tubing and it ran great, I'd like to take care of it so it's still good to go next year. I'm thinking of making a manifold out of some PVC, connect my five runs and just blow them out with compressed air. Any suggestions? Thanks John

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Dr. Tim, curious what you did with that drop......replace it or plug it in? I would have replaced one that looked that bad.

[JoeJ]

I pulled the taps in one small section of my woods this afternoon.Out of the 223 taps I pulled, 32 (14%) drops had mold at the spout and only 2 drops had mold that looked like Perry Family's picture. I have used Lapierre tubing since 2009 and it seems that this year and the past 2 years, the mold in the drops has increased dramatically. This past December, I replaced 400- 500 drops that looked like the picture. This year I am leaving all the drops hanging, unplugged from the tee. And I am going to use CDL tubing from now on. Lapeirre must have done something different with their tubing because I didn't have this problem when I started using the tubing in 2009.

Joe

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr. Tim, curious what you did with that drop......replace it or plug it in? I would have replaced one that looked that bad.

Normally we would replace something like that also, however in this case it was a drop from a study related to cleaning, so changing it would have changed the study parameters, therefore it was left and used as is. That particular line and drop had been cleaned by sucking isopropyl alcohol into the dropline through the spout after the previous season....if you look closely, you can still see the residue of the liquid in the spout connected to the tee, which had a strong alcohol smell. So much for the idea that IPA is a "gas phase sanitizer."

[PerryFamily]

That's really good to know JoeJ
I swear it's only a problem in the Lapierre tubing
I only had a few that were really bad
The others were usually a pretty good spot right were the two ends inside the tubing for some reason

[PerryFamily]

So I pulled some more taps today and found lots more mold. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Tap , vac on all year , pull under vacuum?? Seriously thinking about going with check valves next year to help protect the tap hole. Although there will be a big ol atlas copco pump from MES here next year so the vacuum will be better.
It really bothers me, although it probably shouldn't, that this seems to really be a problem on Lapierre products for the most part.

I had a couple that have literally plugged the drop off.
14190
Really disgusting. This section was 4 year old drops.14189

[PerryFamily]

Here's some more pictures
Bleck!! Gross 1419114192

[n8hutch]

I think it has just been a bad year for this kind of mold growth. With the long season & the wild temperature swings. I have mold like I have never seen before in my drops. I have even had 3/16 laterals plug solid for 5 feet with nasty mold & fungus alot like your picture there. My tubing is only 2 seasons old. I have lapierre & CDL tubing and the bacteria doesn't seem to discriminate.

[PerryFamily]

Thanks N8hutch
That was a suggestion I got too from a buddy
Makes sense
The really bad ones were southern facing

[peteinvermont]

We had 4yr old 5/16" with 3ft long "chunks" of it on northwestern facing slopes this year, and 3/16 lines that I tapped very late in the season even had some snot growing in the taps.

[stoweski]

This year seems to be worse than the past few for me. I have a feeling I'll be changing quite a few drops along with some lats. Problem I have is my mainlines are cruddy too.
I'll run air & water through, then drain and let air dry and see how they look.

[bees1st]

It seems this year during the sugaring season the growth of mold has been worse than other years . So much warm weather between the real runs and sometimes just a drop of sap here and there coming from the trees .

[blurr95]

This was my first year sugaring and I used 5/16 tubing. It has a few small spots of mold growth in random places, usually next to a fitting. How do I clean that out. Some spots are in the middle of the tubing. I washed with water and aired out with a compressor, anything else I should do.

Thanks Jason

[JoeJ]

Another discouraging day pulling taps after the rain stopped. I pulled 497 taps in my Jericho woods and it was a mess. I flagged 24% (121) of the 497 drops as needing to be replaced. However, I would bet that 60% of the drops had some mold in them, some very little, some enough to plug them. I think that the only drops that were clean were the ones that I replaced this past winter. From the looks of these drops, you would never know that all this Lapierre tubing is only three years old. I have used Lapierre tubing since 2009 and the mold growth thing only started to appear last year and it is hitting hard this season

The irony of the mold growth is that it did not seem to hurt sap production. Last season I got 25,020 gal (11.8 gpt) of high sugar content sap (2.17 av) and this season, 60,010 gal (27.92 gpt) of low sugar
content sap (1.38 av).

Is any one using D&G tubing having the mold problem?

When I replace the drops I am going to use a different color tubing (and brand) so that I can tell better when the mold hits.

Joe

[MT Pockets Producer]

Another discouraging day pulling taps after the rain stopped. I pulled 497 taps in my Jericho woods and it was a mess. I flagged 24% (121) of the 497 drops as needing to be replaced. However, I would bet that 60% of the drops had some mold in them, some very little, some enough to plug them. I think that the only drops that were clean were the ones that I replaced this past winter. From the looks of these drops, you would never know that all this Lapierre tubing is only three years old. I have used Lapierre tubing since 2009 and the mold growth thing only started to appear last year and it is hitting hard this season

The irony of the mold growth is that it did not seem to hurt sap production. Last season I got 25,020 gal (11.8 gpt) of high sugar content sap (2.17 av) and this season, 60,010 gal (27.92 gpt) of low sugar
content sap (1.38 av).

Is any one using D&G tubing having the mold problem?

When I replace the drops I am going to use a different color tubing (and brand) so that I can tell better when the mold hits.

Joe

Using D&G here and have the same issue in tubing that was put up last year. All the main lines at the level that the sap was normally at have mold spots. Also a lot of the laterals where they hook onto the main line and loop around to the saddles. Going out today to try it fill everything with water using a pump to soak for a few hours and then flush out and dry out with vacuum. Hoping it works.

[Jeff E]

Hi all. I have 5/16 Laterals and drops that are 10 years old. I used Leader 30P and when replacing drops (due to squirrels, not mold) I use Leader Flex.
I have had similar issues since year 2. I used to pull taps under vacuum, suck water through, and seal at the T fitting.
Now I simply pull under vacuum. I did not see any reduction of mold, etc., with water rinse compared to just clearing with vac.

My current practice (about 5 yrs worth) is pull taps under vacuum, and at the start of the next season, let the first 1/2 day of sap flush the lines and dump that junkie sap.
From then on, I simply filter the sap. When I get big runs, more gunk comes out, so by the middle of the season, my lines are really clear again.
It seems to be a rather stable situation.

I use Check valves, keep the vac on into freeze up, to do my best to keep the tapholes clean. Syrup quality is very high, so I have no concerns with what is in the lines, year in and year out.

[madmapler]

In support of n8hutch's theory, I'm seeing an incredible amount of smegma in my drops this year. They are only 2 yrs. old and I feel like I "should" replace them. It is Lappiere tubing just for the record. I have Cdl in another section. It'll be interesting to see if there's a difference.

[JoeJ]

So any more mold in the drops findings to report? As I was pulling taps yesterday, I thought maybe I would have to reluctantly go back to using Leader tubing for drop lines hoping the Leader tubing would not have the issue. The I read Jeff E's post about his mold in the Leader Flex. Are others using Leader Max Flex drops having the mold growth?

Joe

[DoubleBrookMaple]

So any more mold in the drops findings to report? As I was pulling taps yesterday, I thought maybe I would have to reluctantly go back to using Leader tubing for drop lines hoping the Leader tubing would not have the issue. The I read Jeff E's post about his mold in the Leader Flex. Are others using Leader Max Flex drops having the mold growth?

JoeI used all gray Leader 30P, not flex for laterals and drops, and have a lot this year, and much of it in drops with no low spots, just straight down to lateral. Maybe little or no sap in those taps to flush during runs.

[PerryFamily]

I'm headed out to pull taps right now, I'm sure I'll be bummed out again

[GeneralStark]

Out of the 200 or so taps I have pulled so far I have only found two drops with anything more than the usual mold growth in the spout or right at the junction with the spout and drop. This gets cut off with the spout as I pull spouts and rinse. I did find one drop that had lots of mold like shown in photos in this thread, and one that had lots of white slime. Other than that, nothing to speak of. I don't have any drops older than two seasons in my woods so this may not mean much and I do use CDL semi-rigid for drops.

[PerryFamily]

142251422514226
I didn't have many to pull today 150-175 at best. Still found a few nasty ones. All Lapierre tubing from Webb.
Not just the south side of the tree. Also found 3 or four that were completely sealed off at the end of the spout in the tubing. I'll be adding taps here next year and was considering 3/16 tubing but seeing the amount of schmeg in these drops I'm gun shy now . If these were 3/16 there's a ton that would have been sealed off completely.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Pulled 375 taps today, found a few dirty ones but the new drops were mostly good. CDL semi rigid. I wonder if what others are seeing is more related to a longer season for some as opposed to a certain brand of tubing?

[Burnt sap]

Been using leader 30p line for years never had any problems. I change taps out every other season and flush all lines at end of season I'm sure that helps keep my lines clean some of my lateral lines are 5 years old and still look new.

[unc23win]

I wonder if what others are seeing is more related to a longer season for some as opposed to a certain brand of tubing?

My non scientific hypothesis would agree with you that it has more to do with the season than brand of tubing. My guess would be that when it got so warm early on in the season 50-60' or warmer for such a long stretch that helped more mold grow. Don't forget as Dr. Perkins says just because you can't see mold doesn't mean that it is not there. Also as JoeJ said his production wasn't hurt at all and a lot of people are saying it was an epic season.

[GeneralStark]

I too think it is due to length of season and how warm it was during the season. I am seeing more funk in drops and spouts as I am pulling taps in areas I tapped first. Today I found a couple Ts and spouts that were completely plugged. I have been considering replacing all my drops this fall and now I am most definitely planning on it. The same thing happened in 2012 and I replaced all drops for 2013.

[unc23win]

I too think it is due to length of season and how warm it was during the season. I am seeing more funk in drops and spouts as I am pulling taps in areas I tapped first. Today I found a couple Ts and spouts that were completely plugged. I have been considering replacing all my drops this fall and now I am most definitely planning on it. The same thing happened in 2012 and I replaced all drops for 2013.

It appears that most of mine were where there was more direct sunlight. Funny the one section where I was planning on replacing all the drops doesn't look all that bad compared to other areas. I didnt find any nasty drops where I used a Y to make the end loop. I think I might be going back to them in combination with a plugged T for the drop I really like being able to take up the slack.

[Tweegs]

I’m going to go out on a limb here.

I’ve seen the same kind of crud, both in the drops and in the main lines.
What I noticed was that the crud appeared where I had leaks in the system.
A couple of drops I had flagged for minor leaks had crud…mainlines, up and down stream of a leaking saddle…crud.

A couple of drops that I didn’t flag had mold, which I attributed to a poorly drilled hole or improperly seated spile.

Tapped a hollow tree this year and could see that I was pulling in a small amount of air, but not bad enough to make me pull the tap and cap it…mold.

I’m using 30-P for laterals and drops.

That’s just my observation…if you folks take a second look out there, can you confirm?

[markcasper]

You are correct, many times where there is a air leak or tap that didn't seal right there will be significant visual mold growth either side of the leak.

[PerryFamily]

That may explain the growth right where the tap is slid into the tubing. They are barbless Lapierre straights. I not sure that explains the growth farther down the drop or lateral line?
I wondered if it could be junk on the tee where the drop is plugged in for the off season? I don't cut my taps off my drops when pulling so this might make sense. How does everyone else do it, cut tap off or pull drop off the spout?

Also a lot of the tubing is not very old at all, it would be hard to imagine that many leaks but I guess anything is possible