Thinking of down sizing, what is the highest evaporation rated 2x6?

[maple flats]

My wife keep telling me I should slow down and I'm beginning to agree. I may tap more of my own trees around the sugarhouse (need a few more sap ladders) and try to get someone else interested in my set ups in 2 leases. I still would need to talk with the owners, but in actuality, both leases are up for renewal, but someone may want to buy what I have there and take it over with a new lease.
If I do that, I sure don't need a 3x8 evaporator, I'm thinking a 2x6 and keep my RO. Then likely sell my 2x6 finisher and go to a smaller one, likely a 2x4 rather than a 16x32" like I had, tube burners are far better than having 2 single burners.
Who has the best wood fired performance, is it Smokey Lake's Silver series, or does someone else do better?
I'm still in the thinking stage, will decide by early summer, I'm not ready to sell any equipment yet!

[Urban Sugarmaker]

I wish I lived closer, otherwise I would interested in those leases. I just had a conversation with Jim at Smoky Lake about his 2x6 rigs. I'd give him a call. I think with the complete Silver Plate with preheater and hood, you can do a lot when you have RO. He mentioned August as the latest you might want to order for 2017 to be sure you get what you need. I am also looking at the Sunrise Metal 2x6. The one at Verona this year was beautiful. It's about the same price fully equipped as the SL Silver Plate. It's the one with the extreme pans (raised and drop flue hybrid, 16" I think). They say it does 57 GPH and over 90 with the Sap Raider.

[mudr]

Urban,
I too have been talking to Jim about a 2x6 rig. I'm probably 40 mins from you, maybe ours will be shipped together. :lol:

I am looking at a "badgerland" pan on his corsair arch. I spoke to another guy who is getting 40 gph on that setup w/o a blower. I understand boil rates are kind of subjective, but the math on that 40 gph works out to 0.9 gph per sq foot of pan area based on my calculations, which seems reasonable. Now, that is the badgerland with 7 flues. Jim also has his 10 flue setup that also fits the corsair arch. If you use that 0.9 gph per sq ft boil rate, you could be getting something on the order of 52(ish) gph, I assume you could do more with the blower. That is pretty impressive to me. I think you are looking at $5000 for that rig (don't quote me).

[RIVERWINDS]

I've got a 2 x 6 drop flue set from Jim and (with a preheater in the hood) I easily get 65+gph. I had it really rocking the other day and was in the 75-80gph. I have a homemade arch with a big firebox and AUF/AOF, firing about every 20-25 minutes.

I ran 1000 gal in 15 hrs Saturday. This was from when I lit fire, shutdown half way thru to reverse front pan and end of day shut down.

I'm pretty sure if you buy the pans and arch through Jim he guarantees 60gph, this would be with the "Silverplate" edition.

[maple marc]

Whoa....that's a lot of gph. Doesn't give you a whole heck of a lot of time for beer drinking.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

My wife keep telling me I should slow down and I'm beginning to agree. I may tap more of my own trees around the sugarhouse (need a few more sap ladders) and try to get someone else interested in my set ups in 2 leases. I still would need to talk with the owners, but in actuality, both leases are up for renewal, but someone may want to buy what I have there and take it over with a new lease.
If I do that, I sure don't need a 3x8 evaporator, I'm thinking a 2x6 and keep my RO. Then likely sell my 2x6 finisher and go to a smaller one, likely a 2x4 rather than a 16x32" like I had, tube burners are far better than having 2 single burners.
Who has the best wood fired performance, is it Smokey Lake's Silver series, or does someone else do better?
I'm still in the thinking stage, will decide by early summer, I'm not ready to sell any equipment yet!

hey dave in the beginning of year I was concentrating to 10% and con. flow meter was at 1.25 and i was keeping up with it. I dont think flow gauges lie. This is with a 2x6 split 3x3. Anything but smokey, I would give Thor a call you be surprised at their prices. I can find the email from last year but 30"x10' steam hood, stack, think preheater was 4930.00 pans only.

[CampHamp]

Someone said it last week - look at surface area, not the maker's quoted GPH. We all know how many variables are involved. If they won't quote "surface area under fire" for you, just compare the vertical surface space (# flues x 2 sides x length x depth) to get the key variable between flue pans.

[1220']

I was told it was length x width x 2.5= GPH

2x6x2.5=30
Sound right?

[mudr]

2.5 is the general rule of the thumb, I believe. There is variation around that. A leader wse with fewer+smaller flues would be less than 2.5 gph per square foot. The really deep combo flues, like the 16 inch jobbers from (I think) Sunrise would be greater than 2.5 gph/sq ft.

[maple flats]

My current 3x8 has 10" flues and does well BUT I'm just looking for some of the better comparisons giving typical boil rates by owners rather than manufacturers. While I'll want a good boil rate it does not need to be the absolute highest possible, just at least well above average. As far as manufacturer's rates, I always take them with a grain of salt (or is that niter?). I'll look for a well built unit with excellent craftsmanship and most important, good customer support if needed.
While I'm asking this question, there is a possibility I may decide to get one made by Thor, who made my current pans, I then sat them on my old Grimm arch, and I added HP AOF/AUF to the arch. I'm happy with the Thor, I just want some other ideas before I make any decisions.

[Sugarmaker]

Dave,
Good luck with your down sizing. I think about it at times too. I think I would be just as happy making half or less of the syrup per year. Maybe at a little slower pace? I only have about half the number of taps as you.
Just think you would get a brand new evaporator to play with and get set up too.
Good luck in your decisions.
Regards,
Chris

[MISugarDaddy]

Dave,
We easily got 50 gallons per hour with our 2 X 6 Leader this year, without killing it. My wife had no problems running it when I had to take care of some other things.
Gary

[Bucket Head]

Dave,

Is a 2x6 a definite for the downsizing plan? Your 3x8 isn't that much bigger. It would be different if you had a much larger evaporator. The 3x8 would allow for a shorter boil session by a little bit compared to the 2x6's. However, I don't know what tap count your shooting for. I suppose there could be a tap count that would make the 3x8 seem like overkill.

Besides, your 3x8 pans and hoods are brand new and I'd hate to give them up if it were me! Lol.

Steve

[maple flats]

I have at least 2 reasons to look for a new evaporator. 1st, my sugarhouse is real crowded and the little extra room would be nice. 2nd, on my 3x8 I need at least 250 gal of sap to fire up the first time and 3-400 is far better. With a 2x6 I could fire up with half that. A 3x8 is 24 SF surface area, a 2x6 is 12 SF.
Basically the only space I'd be gaining is to change the evaporator and cut the size of the finisher. Another finisher would likely still be 2x4 since I find the ones with tube burners far better than those offered with 2 rounds turkey fryer type burners. Since I'd keep the 250 RO, that room would need to stay the same.
As far as taps, I'm thinking of just maximizing my tap count around the sugarhouse. That means a max of 160-180 on sugars and up to another 200 on reds and silvers, but those bud early so then I'd finish each season with just the sugars. Generally that is just about 2 weeks from pulling the softs before the sugars finish, but this season I had 4.5 weeks after that the sugars ran after the soft maples budded and were removed from the lines.
Yes, my pans and hood are quite new, but the arch is from 2001. However it has AOF built in, should be re-skinned in SS but it still works well. The doors are also original, airtight would be better.
My thinking is also, that on a smaller rig I'd have longer boils where the 3x8 would be lots of shorter boils, too many short boils results in darker syrup.
At lets say 300 taps and the RO, I'd likely want to just go to 5-6% concentrate or with the 3x8 I'd have boils from start to finish, just over 1 hr.

[johnallin]

Dave,

In 2009 I purchased a Leader 2x6 with Patriot raised flue pan, Steam Hood and (new this year) Leader Stainless pre-heater and 2x2 Revolution syrup pan. This year I consistently got into the high 30's from lighting the match to last fire. We can boil off a 165 gal head tank in about 4½ hours. First and last hours are closer to 20-25 gph but once it's all fired up and hot, the middle hours are closer to the 40-45 gph numbers I see advertised. With a sight tube I can track hourly usage, at the end of the day though, it's how many total hrs to boil off how many gallons of sap that matters. This year I did have one boil at 45 gph, burning all locust - read rocket fuel - and a very high barometer, but that's rare.

As you mention; it's nice to be able to fire up and boil off as little as 80 gal if I want to process a small run and keep it all fresh. I'm very happy with this setup and the folks at Leader. They will go over the top with support and the quality is second to no one out there.

I make syrup as a hobby, for family, friends and for the pure enjoyment of producing something with my head and my hands. Good luck in your search, this is my humble contribution.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

i think GPH will also be determined if your natural draft, forced, or gasification, insulated or just bricks.

[maple flats]

If I get one without AOF, I would add it. If and when I sell my 3x8 I'd keep the HP blower. It now supplies AOF and AUF from the same blower. It is likely 100+ years old and would likely last the rest of my life and then some. The motor on it is likely only 30-40 yrs old.
What I'm likely going to get will come from the top 30% but not necessarily the top 10% in evaporation rate capabilities.
I well know that boil rates are quite variable and it takes some time to get the higher rates on any evaporator, there is always a learning curve and I learn much slower than I did in my earlier years.

[heus]

hey dave in the beginning of year I was concentrating to 10% and con. flow meter was at 1.25 and i was keeping up with it. I dont think flow gauges lie. This is with a 2x6 split 3x3. Anything but smokey, I would give Thor a call you be surprised at their prices. I can find the email from last year but 30"x10' steam hood, stack, think preheater was 4930.00 pans only.
Why "anything buy Smokey"? Just curious.

[motowbrowne]

Why "anything buy Smokey"? Just curious.

I wondered that also.

[mudr]

I wondered that also.

I would like to know as well

[PerryFamily]

I'd like to know as well. I'm currently in the market for new pans and am considering smokey lake and Thor

[johnallin]

I don't know why anyone would not like Jim at Smokey Lake. He makes fine equipment and is an honest man.
My preference is Leader simply because I started with their product and the local dealer - Richards Maple - is a great family run operation. Ford-Chevy kind of thing.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Why "anything buy Smokey"? Just curious.


I wondered that also.


I would like to know as well

its personal and goes back when sugarbush was first being made and his arrogance about being right and then when I would prove him wrong I was removed from the founders of sugarbush. He had/has his head stuck up a certain persons *** so far it wasn't funny. One of the times he was wrong was when we had a discussion about his hydrometers and being VT approved, I was right but the powers to be didn't like it. I could go on but will stop now before he threatens me with a slander law suite or something like that. I have a lot of emails saved from certain individuals that would ignite a fire storm if I was to release them:o

Thank You for asking now we can enjoy the topic we are currently discussing.

[mapledavefarm]

its personal and goes back when sugarbush was first being made and his arrogance about being right and then when I would prove him wrong I was removed from the founders of sugarbush. He had/has his head stuck up a certain persons *** so far it wasn't funny. One of the times he was wrong was when we had a discussion about his hydrometers and being VT approved, I was right but the powers to be didn't like it. I could go on but will stop now before he threatens me with a slander law suite or something like that. I have a lot of emails saved from certain individuals that would ignite a fire storm if I was to release them:o

Thank You for asking now we can enjoy the topic we are currently discussing.

Wow a slander law suite! That does sound like a good reason to buy Thor.

[lpakiz]

Flat Lander,
I doubt very much if you have any worries of a slander lawsuit from Jim. He is much, much, MUCH too busy building quality equipment at a fair price for the hundreds of people who have found him nothing like you describe.
You can relax......

[wishlist]

I would agree " anything but smokey" .

I bought a hood from him and had nothing but issues . As you can see it doesn't sit flat on my pans. It's warped /bowed /crooked basically whatever you want to call it . I was told and I quote from shumaker " get 2 guys and bend it back". Yeah right! Brand new hood, I don't think so. If I lived closer to Wisconsin I would have been like that Discount Tire Ad from years ago and threw the d@#$ thing thru the window . Oh wait there's more.......the front hood actually bolted with 1/4" bolts and sagged . Asked about this and was told I needed washers .

Ended up taking the hood to a local welding service. They have been in business for generations and I know they do a lot of work for the auto shops. Owner of the business looked at the hood and said it needed to be reinforced . Cost me another $100 to fix the brand new hood.

.......and I do agree with Flats. I personally know of such instances .14102

[mapledavefarm]

Wow ! That's bad. At lease it hasn't started rusting yet. There's a person here with a Smokey lake canner that's rusting.