I am done with using funnels and ladles for bottling

[campus189]

I am done with using funnels and ladles for bottling.
I have made the decision to try going with a coffee urn.
First off, I purchased a Hamilton beach coffee urn model 40514 40 cup from wally world. (Wal-Mart)
Percolates at 170 & goes into warming mode with a temperature of 165.
After 10-15 minutes it drops to 145-150 degrees.
This thing is garbage & will be returned.
I purchased another one today. West Bend 42 cup Model 58002 (http://westbend.com/42-cup-polished-urn.html)
According to the website (http://westbend.com/support/product-faqs/coffeemakers/large-capacity.html#section9), the temperature range is perfect.
182-196 is pretty good.

If this coffee urn doesn't get the right temperature, I'm bypassing the thermostat with a toggle switch. ( Fire Hazard, I know)
But, If the house catches on fire, I won't need the coffee urn,lol
When I get the coffee urn, I will post temperatures here to help others.
BTW, I used 5 thermometers all the the same depth to measure the temperature, they all read the same.
I have search 2-3 hours on this site alone trying to find a coffee urn that is worth using for bottling.
I hope that the information I provide may help someone else in choosing a decent coffee urn.
I don't want to shell out hundreds of dollars like you big time producers here, lol, as I am a small producer. :)

[Ghs57]

I am very interested in this (if it works). I too am really done with the mess of "improvised bottling". I was interested in the Smokey Lake bottler until I saw the recent post concerning rust on the filters and grate. I'm sure they will remedy the rust issue, but it's also expensive.

[psparr]

A trick I used with my urn is to shove a piece of 5/16 tubing about an inch or so long into the spigot. It directs the syrup down and stops it from swirling around as it comes out.

[325abn]

When I used the urn method I always preheated the syrup and did not rely on the urn to heat cold syrup it just took to long.

[wnybassman]

When I used the urn method I always preheated the syrup and did not rely on the urn to heat cold syrup it just took to long.

Yep, me too. I did go through the brewing cycle and let the unit kick into warming mode before pouring syrup in, but that was only to help maintain temp and not to build temp.

[325abn]

If your not intent on going though the urn method stage but don't want to drop the $400 + on a mfg canner pan (like I just did) I suggest you get a nice stainless steel pot Like this. Drill a hole for a good thermometer and skip the urn and it's frustration all together!! :)

http://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic-1040-Stainless-10-Gallon/dp/B00C8HQ01Q/ref=sr_1_49?ie=UTF8&qid=1459124380&sr=8-49&keywords=bayou+turkey+fryer

[Ghs57]

If your not intent on going though the urn method stage but don't want to drop the $400 + on a mfg canner pan (like I just did) I suggest you get a nice stainless steel pot Like this. Drill a hole for a good thermometer and skip the urn and it's frustration all together!! :)

http://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic-1040-Stainless-10-Gallon/dp/B00C8HQ01Q/ref=sr_1_49?ie=UTF8&qid=1459124380&sr=8-49&keywords=bayou+turkey+fryer

I gather that you would recommend going the canner route?

[ADK_XJ]

If your not intent on going though the urn method stage but don't want to drop the $400 + on a mfg canner pan (like I just did) I suggest you get a nice stainless steel pot Like this. Drill a hole for a good thermometer and skip the urn and it's frustration all together!! :)

http://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic-1040-Stainless-10-Gallon/dp/B00C8HQ01Q/ref=sr_1_49?ie=UTF8&qid=1459124380&sr=8-49&keywords=bayou+turkey+fryer

I have this exact pot (doubles for my clam and crab boils in the summer...yep, lots of cleaning between seasons) and do bring almost syrup into it to finish but find it very difficult to keep a constant mid-range temp like 180-190 that you might need for bottling a large quantity. Maybe it's because I'm used to boiling off to finished stage and need to try it with the lid on?

[maple marc]

Campus, you will only be happy in the long run with a real water jacket canner. Save your nickels and dimes. Save your angst for something else and get a Smokey Lake 6 gallon electric water jacket canner. No stress, no angst. Funnels, coffee urns, stock pots with taps....been there. At 150 taps, you are ready for one. Any time you heat your syrup on a burner or in a coffee urn, you risk creating niter. A water jacket canner set at 183 does not do this. Put your syrup into the pre-heated canner, go have a beer and watch TV, come back and your syrup is ready to bottle. If you want absolutely clear syrup for glass bottles, it's really the only way to go.

The only issue I have is bottling small bottles with tiny mouths. The spigot does not fit in. For next season I have designed a little funnel that attaches to the spigot.

Go for it,
Marc

[campus189]

Campus, you will only be happy in the long run with a real water jacket canner.

Thank You.
I am going to see what the temps are on this one & report the temperature results.
If that doesn't work, I will definitely purchase one.

As stated before, I have searched and read for hours on this subject on the forum here.
While my new clean glass bottles are boiling in my huge pots on the stove & others in the oven for at least 15 minutes,(no I'm not boiling in oven,lol)
I planned on getting the syrup as close as possible, filtering, then switch to the turkey fryer for finishing.
Filter once again while it is up to temperature.
Dump the water out of the coffee urn & quickly fill with syrup. (unplugged of course )
My way of thinking is, as long as the syrup temperature is high when putting into the canner, there won't be much niter.
I will let it settle before filling bottles.

I just want the coffee urn to hold & maintain the temperature so I can fill easily.
My syrup has always been free of niter, hopefully this will continue.

If this doesn't work, then it's time for a real canner. :)

[psparr]

You'll need to leave the urn plugged in when you dump the water and add your syrup. When you unplug it you reset it, and it will go through the brew cycle again at the higher temp.

[wnybassman]

You'll need to leave the urn plugged in when you dump the water and add your syrup. When you unplug it you reset it, and it will go through the brew cycle again at the higher temp.

Yep, and use an extension cord when you plug it in so you can move about freely when dumping the hot water.

[campus189]

I left that part out, lol
Thank You for the replies. :)
Again, once the coffee urn arrives, I will post the temperature results..
This forum has tons of posts about using these urns, but not many go into recommending which ones work well, and which ones don't.

[campus189]

Update on my coffee urn for bottling..
According to the website specifications, this is perfect for bottling temperatures.
West Bend 42-Cup Polished Aluminum Urn – 58002
However, it is not.
This is lucky to get to 175 degrees after brewing..
So, I give up on purchasing coffee urns for bottling.

This will make my 3rd brand new coffee urn that does not work.
However, I found the perfect solution for bottling by mistake.
If you bottle 1 to 1-1/2 Gallons at a time, this will work good for you..
http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14093&stc=1http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14094&stc=1http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14095&stc=1
I was looking at craigslist under the business section and found this for $ 50.00
It is a double jacketed stainless steel coffee urn with a warmer.

To use it, I put hot tap water into the top part and turned on the warmer.
At the same time I boiled 1-1-½ gallons of water on the stove to the point of boiling.
Once the water was boiling on the stove, I emptied the hot tap water & poured in the boiling water.
I put the lid on the top and inserted the thermometer into the hole in the lid.
It holds the temperature of the boiling water at 205 degrees.

While the boiling water is sitting in the dispenser, I slowly heat my syrup on the stove to 205 Degrees on the stove top.
Once the syrup on the stove top is at 205 degrees, I empty the boiling water in the dispenser into the sink.
Then quickly pour the syrup into the dispenser, put the lid on, and let the temperature drop to 200-190 degrees.
I bottled 5 gallons this way at 200 degrees with no problems.

Very fast,very easy, no mess, no funnels, no ladles, and no scorching or unplugging at all.
When I tested this at first, it held the temperature at 205 degrees for over 2 hours.

These can be found or craigslist, eBay, as well as amazon really cheap.
Just do a search for “American Metal Ware CS-1”
Or, Search for “commercial coffee dispenser” on eBay, Amazon, etc.
Make sure you get the warmer with it. It helps a lot.
With the warmer you get clearance to fill bottles.
If you want you can put spout over the side of a sink for easy draining/cleaning/filling.

Here are some links as an example..
Ebay, Link-1

(http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Metal-Ware-CS-1-CW-1H-Grindmaster-Warmer-And-Shuttle-/162024566163?hash=item25b96aad93:g:Iy4AAOSwIwhWSgD T)

Ebay, Link-2
(http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-2-AMW-H-D-COMMERCIAL-COFFEE-SATELLITE-DISPENSERS-w-DOCKING-WARMERS-/381580310157?hash=item58d7f5768d:g:nZAAAOSwFMZWtQF F)
Keep in mind other manufactures make similar items, but Ihave not tested other brands.
However, I am sure they will work just as well.

Hopefully, this helps others when it comes to bottling.
Keep in mind, this would be for small scale producers like me.



(http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-2-AMW-H-D-COMMERCIAL-COFFEE-SATELLITE-DISPENSERS-w-DOCKING-WARMERS-/381580310157?hash=item58d7f5768d:g:nZAAAOSwFMZWtQF F)

[campus189]

As far as spigot size goes, it is 5/8"

For the plastic jugs I use, it is perfect.

If you need to fill smaller bottles, a silicon funnel will fit right over the spigot.
The 1/2 pint, 1 pint, quart, and gallon plastic jugs, all have same size mouth for easy filling.

http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14098&stc=1http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14099&stc=1http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14100&stc=1

[Ghs57]

Nice work on this. I'm on the lookout for my solution, for the time being anyway. Thanks.

[campus189]

Nice work on this. I'm on the lookout for my solution, for the time being anyway. Thanks.

If you have trouble finding them, let me know. :)

[ryebrye]

Thanks for that post. It's an air-gapped urn and not water-jacket one - so the point of putting the boiling water in first is to heat it up?

Would it be practical to find a way to use a heat-gun to pre-heat the air in the air gap somehow?

My 10-year-old son is itching to make some money this summer and has been begging me to let him sell syrup at a local farmers market. Syrup sells much better when you can provide warm samples of it to people - it seems like this kind of setup might keep it warm enough for people to sample for a few hours if we got it really hot before hand.

[campus189]

Thanks for that post. It's an air-gapped urn and not water-jacket one - so the point of putting the boiling water in first is to heat it up?


Correct, the point is to heat it up to the proper temperature for bottling.
As I stated above, it is double jacketed stainless, and not water jacketed. :)
For warming only you wouldn't have to put water in it at first. ( this would work perfect for your application )
For bottling, I pre-heated tap water to get the heating element up to temperature and to heat the metal up.
At the same time I boiled 1-1/2 Gallons of water to fill it so it would also heat up the metal to the proper bottling temperature.
Less time waiting for the heating element to do all the work.
It is a 1000 watt element, but faster to let the boiling water do the work rather than the element. :)
I would following the same guidelines I used so the sap stays hot. ( around 200 degrees )
I don't think a heat gun would have any effect really. ( you can try )
The model I have pictured above has two locking tabs for the top, less mess when transporting in vehicle.
BTW, Excellent idea with the samples idea. :)

http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14127&stc=1

[campus189]

ryebrye,

Just for the hell of it, I'm going to boil water and put it in the urn without any pre heating of any kind.
I will post results of temperature later.

[ryebrye]

Nice!

I looked at one of them on eBay and the plate on the back said "0.1KW" - are there different warming units? That would be only 100 watts right? If it keeps it warm, I don't really care if it is a 1kw or 100 watt power unit, but 100 watt might be something you could power with solar power.

[campus189]

I was mistaken, the unit in the pictures is only 100 watts..
However if you use the warmer, it will hold the temperature for as long as you need it.
I was under the assumption that you would not have electrical service.
I just got done testing.
Without using the warmer, I poured boiling water into the top part of it.
4:00 PM starting temperature was 205 degrees.
5:00 PM temperature was 185 degrees.
6:00 PM temperature was 175 degrees.
7:00 PM temperature was 165 degrees.

This unit went three hours without the warmer and the lid was on.
If you were to pour syrup into this at 200 degrees, it would stay warm enough to last many hours as stated by results above.
Keep in mind, that this was done at room temperature and not outside.
Also, if you look at the 3 hour mark, it is still too hot to serve as a sample to someone.

So, in short, this allows you to warm your syrup and transport to your event for numerous hours before it gets cold.
I would think that around 140 would be the maximum temperature to serve as a sample.
That being said, you have around 5-6 hours from the time you put the syrup in.
However, thanks to you I figured out that I can easily bottle 1 to 1-1/2 gallons of syrup without the warmer, or pre heating.

Keep in mind, that many coffee urns are made of aluminum and hard to clean.
Also, most urns have the center piece that contacts the syrup directly & will cause niter.
The unit I described earlier is double jacketed with no center piece that will cause niter problems.
Hopefully this helps you as well as others.

[Z/MAN]

I have about the the same setup as seen in another thread by psparr. I fill my urn with water and let it heat up with the urns heater while I finish my syrup to density on the stove. When my syrup is to the correct density I empty the urn and install the bucket funnel with filters. I then pour my hot off the stove (usually 215+)syrup into the filters and into the urn. I place a lid on the top of the funnel filter holder and proceed to bottle my syrup. I "NEVER" plug the urn back in. The syrup stays plenty hot for the time it takes me to bottle it. Until the syrup gets dark later in the season most of my syrup runs right through the 3 prefilters and the orlon filter. If I have to remove prefilters I still have time to remove them and finish bottling. I have installed a thermometer in my urn to monitor syrup temperature. One last thing I should mention is that I filter my syrup through one prefilter as it comes out of the evaporator and it picks up more sand-niter then the prefilters in the urn! I just see no reason to plug the urn in and possibly make more niter.

[maple marc]

Campus, what silicone funnel are you using for small-necked bottles?

Thanks,
Marc

[campus189]

Campus, what silicone funnel are you using for small-necked bottles?

Thanks,
Marc

I use the silicon funnels from wal-mart. (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Farberware-Red-Funnels-3pk/17813028)

I use a rubber band to hold it in place.
Works good for my small bottles.
Not sure if this will be small enough for you.
So, I took some pictures. :)

http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14174&stc=1http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14175&stc=1


(http://www.walmart.com/ip/Farberware-Red-Funnels-3pk/17813028)

[maple marc]

Campus, thanks so much. This should work perfectly!

Marc

[johnallin]

Marc
I have a Smokey Lake bottler. Call Jim, he has a replacement spout with a smaller stainless tube for filling bottles - I had the same issues - it solved the problem..
John

[bill in il]

I am a small producer similar to you. This year I picked up a super chef vacum jug. They can be had second hand if you look around for 1-200 dollars. I boil my syrup to proper density then filter through a cone filter suspended in the vacum jug top. These things are insulated enough to keep your syrup hot for packing right down to the last bottle. The spout works great but I don't use the tiny couple ounce bottles either.

[Daveg]

My Hamilton Beech would burn the syrup, causing bits of carbon to contaminate.

[campus189]

I am a small producer similar to you. This year I picked up a super chef vacum jug. They can be had second hand if you look around for 1-200 dollars. I boil my syrup to proper density then filter through a cone filter suspended in the vacum jug top. These things are insulated enough to keep your syrup hot for packing right down to the last bottle. The spout works great but I don't use the tiny couple ounce bottles either.

I looked at these before.
As I am a small time producer, they are a little bulky for my needs, however they look perfect for a slightly larger producer other than me. :)

[campus189]

Marc
I have a Smokey Lake bottler. Call Jim, he has a replacement spout with a smaller stainless tube for filling bottles - I had the same issues - it solved the problem..
John

I noticed on Ebay and Amazon, they sell really small funnels that would work with this.
Also, the silicone funnel can be cut just like a stainless funnel and be inserted into the spout.
I too, don't fill many small bottles, but as the saying goes " The customer is always right"
If they are willing to pay for it, why not keep them happy.
I find that filling those small bottles are a pain in the butt. :(

You can do something like this if your filling lots of small bottles.
The cut silicon funnel will fit inside.
Just a suggestion.


http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14183&stc=1