Sap flowing into buckets, but not tubing

[Sue @ Battel's Sugar Bush]

We're in Michigan and fortunately our trees didn't bud during the two-week warm spell so we're once again making syrup. However, we are getting very little sap coming into our vacuum tubing. It's not that it is not drawing the sap through the system. The lines are fairly empty so it appears the holes are not producing. Sap is flowing well into our buckets, bags and gravity tubing that were tapped just one day later. Can anybody ponder why this would be and what we can do about it? I always thought tubed holes dried up later then bucket holes.


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[PeddlerLakeSapper]

Sue, I have been battling this late season flow myself. Some of my best 2-tap trees that were filling buckets stopped running, and some of my 1-tap trees that were filling 1/2 a bucket are still filling 1/2 a bucket. 2 of my best trees 4ft. apart, 1 is still filling 1/2 a bucket and the other one nothing. No rhyme or reason.

I collected and did a test boil on the stove and my sap is bad. All hard maples, no buds. You had better check yours.

[Sue @ Battel's Sugar Bush]

Thanks, Dave. It's still good. We pulled taps from the only three soft maples. We made 8 good gallons yesterday and 4 today.


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[Cedar Eater]

Are you getting a good vacuum at the ends of the lines? Some is good, but more is better. Are the trees on buckets different in some way, like a different slope or more sun? Did you use a different drill bit for the tubing spiles? Tap on a different side of the tree?

[Sue @ Battel's Sugar Bush]

Good questions, Cedar Eater. Yes on good vacuum. Bagged and gravity trees are tapped by our kids and are mostly roadside so I know they'll naturally produce better. Bucket trees are right in the middle of vacuum tubed so there should be very little difference.

Just now, reading a past post that linked to a Proctor Center report gave me a clue. I had my kids sterilize their spiles by boiling and the spiles used on the bucket trees were also boiled. The spiles on vacuum tubing have been on the droplines over winters and are old. I'm thinking the sustained high temps we had may have been enough to cause bacterial growth in the old spiles that the sterilized ones didn't get.

Still open to hearing more ideas. Thanks!


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[Fiddlehead]

Sue is exactly right. I had the same issue a few years back when I still had a mix of buckets and tubing with drop lines. The spouts are likely not sterile and may have spores and bacteria on them. After about two weeks of use your tap hole will "dry up", but on a new or clean tap you will get several weeks longer season. Steven Childs at Proctor Maple reseach has some great studies on this. It it well worth it to sterilize every year or go with the disposable taps. I did and it completely solved my issue.

[Tater]

I'm certainly a believer in sterilization of spliles. We bought new stainless spiles this year, and I rinsed them out well then baked them in the oven at 300 deg F for a half hour. We tapped in late January, and when we pulled taps in early March, half of our bags were full (3 gallons in 36 hrs, but no more freezing nights in the forecast). A few had dried up, but considering we had times when it never got below freezing for 4 or 5 days, and considering the last week before we pulled taps had several days that hit 80 deg F, I was impressed. A friend tapped in early February and gave us the sap. His taps dried up in two or three weeks.

[Cedar Eater]

I think if I was going to reuse spiles on tubing runs, I would probably sterilize them by soaking in full strength hydrogen peroxide before tapping. I don't know how long they would have to soak for, but I think any length of time would help.

[saphound]

Good questions, Cedar Eater. Yes on good vacuum. Bagged and gravity trees are tapped by our kids and are mostly roadside so I know they'll naturally produce better. Bucket trees are right in the middle of vacuum tubed so there should be very little difference.

Just now, reading a past post that linked to a Proctor Center report gave me a clue. I had my kids sterilize their spiles by boiling and the spiles used on the bucket trees were also boiled. The spiles on vacuum tubing have been on the droplines over winters and are old. I'm thinking the sustained high temps we had may have been enough to cause bacterial growth in the old spiles that the sterilized ones didn't get.

Still open to hearing more ideas. Thanks!


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Hi Sue,
don't know if you saw my post about reviving dry tap holes, but all my tapholes quit running (on buckets) after 4 weeks and all my spiles were brand new. I think the warm spell we had is the culprit, perfect conditions for the microbes to multiply. I redrilled the tap holes and they started flowing again. I guess it's called reaming, according to Dr. Tim. But if you wanted to try an experiment, you could try redrilling one of your vacuum trees and see if it starts flowing again. If it does, at least then you would know it's not a problem with your tubing system.

[jasminesugardaddy]

glad I stumbled upon this information. golden info. or amber.

[DrTimPerkins]

Steven Childs at Proctor Maple reseach has some great studies on this.

Cornell Maple Program, NY = Steve Childs, Dr. Mike Farrell, Dr. Peter Smallidge

UVM Proctor Maple Res Ctr, VT = Dr. Tim Perkins, Dr. Abby van den Berg, Brian Stowe, Wade Bosley

UVM Maple Extension, VT = Mark Isselhardt, Tim Wilmot (retired)

[Fiddlehead]

Sorry Dr Tim. My mix up. I enjoy your input on this site.

... Fiddlehead

[mapleguy]

Sue I had the same problem until I went to the cv-1 adaptors with the stubby spout. You won't believe the difference and well worth the cost

[Russell Lampron]

As soon as read this I was thinking that the spouts on the tubing were probably old. If you are using a mechanical releaser the sap flows back into the tap hole bringing bacteria with it every time the releaser dumps. Seasonal spouts are the way to go. I use the CV 2's and really like them. I used to use the 2 piece stubby and CV 1 adapter but have far fewer leaks and problems with the CV 2's.