More Global warming discussion

[tapper]

Found this on msn.
http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=5198602c-551a-4891-a93b-c6dafca5036e&f=06/64&fg=copy

What is everyones thoughts?

Looks like another trumped up stab at the global warming issue by the liberal media to me.

[PA mapler]

I read another scare article, and I'll put the link in if I can find it, from the NY Times. Again, Vermont was targeted. Supposedly by 2100 the climate of Vermont will be like that of Virginia's today. Apparently it's already happening, and they prove this by saying that's why the Canadians are making more syrup than the US because the climate is better up there now for sugar maple trees. Seems to me the trees that the Canadians are tapping have been around since before any global warming!

I think all the scare is resulting rom the late onset of winter that we've had the past three years. These cycles come and go, and once winter gets here, it's just as harsh as it's always been. Who knows.

[markcasper]

My wife taped that, it aired this past Monday night, on the nightly news.
One thing is for sure. Since the democrats are in control now, the global warming thing and climate change has become almost a daily big deal, whether on the news, in the paper, or radio.

Tim Perkins may be a wonderful educator, but he contradicted their own study they are doing on tapping early. While its true that early tapped holes will "dry up" with extended warm weather, he failed to mention the progress that has taken place in deaLING WITH this. I Believe the sanitary adaptors and the addition of vacuum pumping have nearly doubled my yearly production.

The old rule of thumb was a quart per tap. That was before climate change started, remember? Now the new standard is 1/2 gallon per tap, a quart would suggest a lousy year. I believe Proctor averaged .62 per tap or something like that.

Of course NBC will go to Proctor. Most educators are highly liberal and they form the clay that was molded by the liberal-minded news media. What will these people say on Judgement Day?

[brookledge]

It definately showed how most of us resist change. The farm has been there for eight generations and has always done buckets. Now his son wanted to go to tubing and vacuum. I bet there was some long discussions in that family.
I myself like to think that I try to keep an open mind about change but once in a while I say "if it ain't broke why fix it".
As for Global Warming I don't think that our society is going to change our habits. Everyone likes there independence. In general we always worry about things of today and not things of tommorrow. When you drive your car do you worry about the emisions affecting generations to come or the fact that you need to run to the store to get groceries.
Its just like smoking, most smokers know its going to kill them but thats along ways away so why worry about it now.
So if we really are having a change in the climates, I don't think we can do anything about it except deal with it and ajust the best you can. I have used the sanitary adapters on all my taps this year and hope that it will allow for a longer season. I would like to see if anybody used the sanitary adapters in January, how the sap flowed for them in March and April?
I kind of got off track there but it is so warm here today that there is no sap flow.
Keith

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

How does a taphole dry-up?? I'm kinda wondering if any of us have experience's where taps had stopped giving up sap with a tubing system? Or with buckets?

I have seen a metal spout left in a tree that was almost grown over and only about 1/2" of the lip showing and the thing was dripping sap out the spout/About 12+ Years ago on a friends property. Probably a fluke or maybe the growing of the tree around the spout caused a rupture in the new Cambium layer to leak sap?

After finding a couple of spouts still in the tapholes in the fall after the spring washing of the tubing system and flowing sap from them/hadn't dryed up yet=Blacker then tar in the hole though 8 months later/but still dripping.

Hearing stories of taps drilled at the end of sugaring season and left for the next springs season gets one thinking do the taps really dry-up in a couple of months on a tubing system? Slow done some/but really dry-up/Doubt it...

The ole Qt. per tap was probably "established" when or Before Vacuum was in it's infancy??. So who has the exact (or about the exact) answer when the taphole will dry-up and stop giving up sap on any taphole made rather it be Bucket, Gravity or Vacuum??

I do have some Research reports on Bucket studies(about like comparing Aseptic tapping practices) on about how long they will give up sap before the flow stops completely(Done back in the 50's before tubing came into the picture)/ I have yet to see anything else pertaining to studies done on how long before they really "dry-up" under gravity or Vacuum.

Sounds like a Good start-up for some sugarmaker to "open" their own experimental research center and find out some answers before we jump to conclusions on answers.I know i can't tell when they exactly dry-up on tubing/only assume when they may start slowing down? And can't be exact at that...My season's always end with the weather being the deciding factor/not the taphole.

Lets do this=Someone from each state leave in all year long say 10 taps on gravity and 10 on vacuum and seal the system from atmospheric air and then measure the flow from those taps during next springs sap flow season and if they produce?/measure the amount of sap from them and then seal the system off again for the summer and go for a 3rd. season from the same taphole and keep going until they do dry-up??

We'll compare notes on this in the future...And see what we come up with for an answer??

I'm in on this experiment/Who else wants to participate?

[tapper]

Could the news media have included only a small portion of what Tim Perkins was saying? I dont think they would do that. Would they?

[twigbender]

I watched a "news program" on Fox one night last week. They had a climatologist on there who claims that he has 500 names of climatologists, meteorologists, and other scientists who claim that global warming is not happening but in fact we are cooling. Fox showed the list of names scrolling through as this man talked. One of his main points is that most of the folks who back the Gore/United Nations global warming theory are politicians, bureaucrats, and media folks -- not many scientists. One of the names that caught my eye was a climatologist that was the head of the Atmospheric Science Dept at U of Wisconsin - Madison. That's one of the most liberal schools in the nation and if the head climatologist from there says global warming is bunk, he's got my attention!!

I also listened to the Midday program on Minnesota Public Radio earlier this week. They had four speakers from different backgrounds that spoke to the global cooling theory. What was interesting was data presented by a lawyer that shows that four weather reporting stations around Al Gore's tobacco farm for the past 60 years show a decrease in the average annual temperature. Do you suppose that Al G. may have his own agenda for all of this malarky?

In Minneapolis there is an afternoon talk show hosted by Joe Scoucheray. His staff meteorologist reads weather data with record highs and lows and closes each announcement with "further proof of global warming" very tongue-in-cheek.

It's nice to hear that others out there see through the global warming fiasco. It's a huge ruse on the American public lead by Al Gore and his minions in the liberal media. I'm not sure what the motive is; surely not an Oscar, but Al stands to gain big time somewhere in the future.

[tapper]

Do you remember Y2K? Politicians, big business and the media played the fear card for 3 or 4 years to the masses of the world before the deadline of Y2K. All of them profiting emensly from it. Fear sells! Unlike Y2K global warmings deadline is many years away if at all leaving politicians,big business and the media to profit from it for many years to come. If I would have been sugaring for the last 20 yrs instead of the last 11 I'm sure there would have been a season or 2 in there just like this one. Thats what makes it interesting. Every year is different and if it were the same year after year I bet not near as many people would do it?

[PA mapler]

My husband read a report that Al Gore's utility bills last year totaled over $70,000 for his mansion. Guess he's contributing more to "global warming" than the rest of us put together!

[tapper]

Fox news reported last week that Al Gore uses as much energy in one month as the average person does in 1 year. He expects the average person to listen to him?

[TapME]

Global warming or pocket lining, only and issue to take the pulic off the real problem ,them making more money. What stocks or companies do they have holdings in? Sure did spark a town meeting disscusion on this subject. Global warming bunk between the ears I say. Do as I say not as I do, inventor of the internet, sucessor to the oral office, and more that I can't think of right now.

[markcasper]

In all reality, the bugs will put us out of a job faster than gloabal warming. Course theres those that will say the invasive species have been caused by "global warming".

I read about Ann Bancroft having to cancel out a trip across the Arctic....she and a partner got frostbite.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I was thinking this morning that the global warming thing has quited down with the very cold temps the past 2 months.

[markcasper]

We had a killing frost here about 2 weeks ago, September 13th. I got home from work and it was 26 degrees. Watermelons, tomatoes, everything was dead. Thats a full week and then some early for my area. I don't remember the last time that it froze and killed this early.
The next day, the big freeze made the front page and the newspaper was out soliciting comments, asking people how it affected them.
One of the questions that the reporter asked was: "Do you feel that the abnormal cold we have experienced is in any way related to global warming."

I was shocked that 3 of the 5 people interviewed responded yes to that question. What has happened to the people in this country? Now I am not surprised why there are those that would INVITE a terrorist in to the old USA as a guest speaker.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

From reading the article in the Sept/Oct issue of the maple news on global warming, evidently this happened back in the 1970's. It is all part of the liberal agenda. The liberals want everyone to be reliant on the government and to make government huge. The want us to be so reliant on the government we are like a baby in a diaper. The more reliant we get, the more we are headed towards socialism. Just wait until election year next year. This is also a big plot to help the liberal party in election year next year. You will hear some of the biggest lies and promises about how they will stop all this and clean up what is causing it.

Back to this article in the Maple News, he had researched temps in the area of VT I think that was supposed to have risen like 4.4 degrees in the last 30+ years and found that the temps had only risen .2. A lot of the other areas he had researched had actually dropped in temps more than .2 degrees. It is funny how it works. It is part of the liberal agenda and the news media is behind almost completed committed to the liberal agenda and none of this garbage is ever refuted, just reported as the truth. Let someone on the other side try to refute it, and they won't even get coverage.

I don't remember all this happening in the 70's, but I do remember the big ozone kick in the 80's and early 90's. I agree we do too much to pollute our atmosphere and earth, but we have made great strides the past few years and think we should continue to but it is the moose gas and the underdeveloped countries that are causing the bulk of the problems with no controls. Kill all the moose, deer, elk and larger game and that will correct most all of our problems and then kill all the conservatives as you know they produce more methane than a liberal and all the problems with be solved.

I know it has been brought up to stay off of politics, but this is going to affect every aspect of our life and especially maple syrup if this snowball keeps getting bigger, just wait and see. It may come to the fact that evaporators do too much to pollute the enviroment since we don't have pollution controls on it and they will be banned or we will have to invest in expensive equipment. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it could happen.

[TapME]

Our last frost was May 16 here, and our first fall frost was Aug 20th. have the gov't change it for me. thanks

[Toblerone]

I guess I am one of the liberals. Remember that GW is all about climate not weather in any one year and I do believe the case can be made for an overall trend. Take a look over at www.realclimate.com where real, actual, living, breathing liberal scientists discuss the issues.

Having said that, however, I don't believe there is one darn thing we can do about it. The biggest problem facing us, as a society, is that of Peak Oil. If you've not heard of it, jump over to http://lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/ or http://www.theoildrum.com. You will find that there is no liberal agenda there. Most people posting there are long time oil industry guys. They know what they're talking about.

Many people there think that we've just past the point where the production of oil in the world will decrease every year until it is gone (or is at least too expensive to retrieve) with coal and natural gas peaking soon after. With demand ever increasing, the only outcome will be major price hikes. My prediction: gasoline will be $10/gallon within the next 5-10 years.

In relation to Global Warming, does anyone really think that we are going to let that precious energy stay in the ground? No way. People don't understand just how powerful this stuff is. It has easily 10 times more net energy than any so-called alternative fuels. We are going to dig/pump all of it up that we can and we are going to burn it until it's gone. All of that CO2 will go into the atmosphere. (Sequestration is a pipe dream IMHO). If you believe in GW, my suggestion would be make sure you are not near the coast.

I think most of you maple guys/gals are in the best position to mitigate Peak Oil. Many have arable land, fuel, potable water, all on site. You're pretty self sufficient. I wonder how I'm going to make it in the city. I really wonder how folks in the burbs are going to handle it.

Sorry for the rant.
Good luck to all,
Dave

[markcasper]

The latest thing in my area is to blame ethanol for everything. From higher milk and food prices to the increased license plate fee. Its all b/c of ethanol don't you know.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Dave,

You are correct in your assumptions and I think most would probably agree with you. What I mean when I refer to the liberal agenda is people like Al Gore that are pushing this GW stuff but yet has a $ 4,000 to $ 5,000 monthly electrical bill to heat his mansion and when questioned about it, he has no answer. He isn't that concerned about it, just making a name for himself and pushing the liberal agenda. If he was really that concerned about it, he would start with taking care of his excess waste that is contributing to GW.

We could really help ourselves by eliminating all the billions of dollars we are paying farmers for CRP programs and put them all back in business making products to produce our own fuel for electricy and power our vehicles. We are smart and we can do it. Problem is, government wants everyone reliant on the government.

Just think of all the millions of jobs this would create and we could start exporting it. Economy would suddenly have a big surplus from all the extra hundreds of billions or more in extra income generated every year and the unemployment rate would be like .8%. They could raise corn and generate power from corn. It has tons of btu's and would burn much cleaner than fossil fuels.

[Toblerone]

Brandon, I agree Al Gore should have done more to make sure his house was in order before calling others to action. But, also, lets not forget that Al Gore is not a regular guy. He's a former vice president, and presidential candidate. I'm sure he (and his wife) have offices at the house, and a security staff to boot. I work from home and my electric bills show it. Also, at least he is buying so-called green energy credits from the power company. Whether you think it's a good idea or not, at least he is sticking to his convictions in some way. But, I must say, I thought the heated swimming pool I read about seemed a little excessive. Nobody is perfect. You are bound to find some hypocrisy if you look hard enough. I think if you compare what he had done to advance his movement (whatever you may think of it) to what he has spent (hypocrisy-wise), I'd say he's done a net positive.

Regarding Ethanol, I think it (corn-based Ethanol) is largely a red herring for energy independence. It's largely a political tool for politicians to support farmers to get votes... not that I don't think we shouldn't take care of our farmers. They should be paid a fair price. But, once oil starts to become scarce, there is simply no way for Ethanol to fill the gap. Even the most generous estimations of EROEI (Energy Returned on Energy Invested) for Ethanol put it at 2. Meaning 1 unit of energy is consumed to produce 2 units of energy. Keep in mind the EROEI of petroleum is at least 10. It may help wean us off of petroleum until another vehicle fuel can be found/perfected (e.g. electric batteries), but it will never be our main fuel.

Anyway, if we were serious about ethanol, we'd be growing or purchasing sugar cane. EROEI estimates on ethanol from sugar cane put it at least 4, probably as high as 8. But then again, there isn't a large voter base growing sugar cane. Perhaps Sorghum could be grown in the US.

Consider this point. In terms of efficiency in converting sunlight to energy, corn is less than 10% (around 7 or 8%, IIRC) efficient. Even basic, been-around-forever, solar cells are more efficient than that.

What we need to do is build large concentrating solar power plants in the southwest, then build a large HVDC transmission system to get the power to where it is needed. See http://www.nrel.gov/csp/ ... But this will never happen as long as we have cheap oil and coal now. That's just a fact. I mean why should we spend all this money on expensive electricity just so some other country can burn the cheap oil/coal/ng instead? This is why I don't think conservation will do a thing... it just enables others to use more. Again, it's not like it will be left in the ground. Somebody is going to burn it.

Insofar as the US becoming a net exporter of energy (Ethanol, electricity, etc..), I don't foresee that ever happening. I think we are going to have enough trouble keeping up with our own demand.

Remember to plant more than just maple trees. You might want some high-BTU hardwoods in there too so you (or your kids at least) can keep the evaporator fired for years to come.

Take care.

[802maple]

Solar power will also never happen to the extent that you say as there is a large group of liberals that talk out both sides of their mouth telling us that we have to get away from our dependence on oil, but the first mention of wind power or large solar units as you desribe they are all up in arms saying that it will destroy the scenic beauty and devalue their homes. We can't have it both ways.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The wind power generation is good and every time they try to install these around here, here come the enviromentalists and naturalists screaming bloody murder and they get the oridinary citizens all stirred up from all the lies and garbage they feed them simply because with human nature it is easy to get stirred up about things without thinking them thru.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I know Al Gore probably has some concern and may be truly sincere, but if he was really sincere, he would downsize his house and property about 10 times along with his electrical useage. Most of the time, it comes with these type of people leading the charge and I am not neccessarily referring to him, but they say one thing and do something else or " DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO".

It is easy to talk the talk, but hard to walk the walk with anything in life.

[PATheron]

Everyone is fired up about the global warming issue but it seems to me that conservation is a win-win. If you use less energy you keep more money in your pocket and you polute less. Ive never made a serious effort to conserve like driving a yogo or something but when I had my house built I had them put in a geothermal heating system. It cost a little more than other systems but not that much. I did it for a selfish reason, money. Five years ago on a 2000 square foot house the projected annual heating cost was 260.00 bucks. The projected annual cooling cost 60.00 It cost more not to run the airconditioning becouse the unit when running preheats your domestic hot water. I dont know if you can see a trend in a matter of a few years when the earth measures time in millions of years, but I was raised not to polute anyway. As far as liberal and conservative goes pick your poison theyre all crooks. Happy arguing Theron

[royalmaple]

On the way back from the hunting trip this week we saw some huge windmills in Mars Hill, ME. Absolutely amazing how big these things were, along a ridge on one mountain, just spinning away. I thought it was actually an interesting sight and not something that tarnished the land scape. It was a modern look but better than a puff of smoke.

I took some pictures not sure yet how they came out or if they will do the mills justice, but they are just enormous, the blades looked 300 feet long each. And they were just spinning round and round.

I do remember a fight about putting them up but someone got it passed. I'm not sure who owns them, but definately interesting to see. And the wind is always blowing up there.

Found this image online:http://www.mainepublicradio.org/radio/images/windmill3.jpg

But doesn't give you the impression of how big they are.

[TapME]

Matt those wind mills are on Mars Hill. It took the company over 3 years for permits, and the biggest holdup was the state. The towers are 20 or so feet at the base and I believe the blades are 300 feet long. This same group wants to put some in western Maine and has come up against strong opposition from all the green camps.

[royalmaple]

Lou-

You are right, they are just amazing how big they are. Makes the mountain look like a sand pile in a kids sand box. Unreal when you figure the trees around them are say at least 40-50 feet tall, and it looks like carpet when you drive by.

[802maple]

They have the same ting over in New York and they are huge. I was following one of the generators down the road that was on the back of a truck and it was as big as bus. They have been trying to get some here Vermont for several years and the enviromentalists just keep on fighting. I personally agree with Matt as they are cool in my mind to watch ,but then again it doesn't take much to amuse me

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I think they are really cool too and I can't see why the enviromentalist fight them. No pollution and they are basically silent. Seems like to me the best solution to the problem. Yeah, they might change the landscape a little, but I enjoy watching them and looking at them too.

These kind of people you can never make happy.

[Maplewalnut]

There is a snowmobile trail the rides directly under them here in Pa. You have no idea how big they are until you look up from the base of one. Most of the times we have only noticed a low humm from the blades. Definitely more environmentally friendly than my two-stroke sled!

[Revi]

Well, this is amazing. Peak Oil and Maple Sugaring converge! Great to hear from you, Toblerone.

Peak Oil is the spur that moves the horse towards doing something about global warming. We have cut our fossil fuel use by half in the past 5 years.

Here are some of the things we've done. We save around $2650 per year in energy costs and produce half the carbon.

http://www.msad54.org/sahs/appliedarts/artlofving/Energysav/index.htm

We have to remember that maple sugaring is carbon neutral, if you use wood. I believe in global warming, but I can see that it is going to continue to warm whatever we do. All we can do now is mitigate it.

There is a possible upside for woodland owners. The Chicago Climate Exchange is up and running, and there is a possibility that we could sell our carbon sequestration abilities. We just cruised our woodlot to see how much carbon there is on the land, and are in a pilot program. Imagine being paid to lock up carbon! People who have high carbon lifestyles would pay landowners to offset their use of fossil fuels. They need to feel like they are doing something about the problem, and so do we. It could also help pay the taxes.

[TapME]

Revi, nice to see all the savings that you have put into effect. Always nice to see someone that is trying to save money in the long run. Our impact has been to save in heating cost buy using more renewable energy(wood). 3 years ago our cost of heating was 1700gals, and 2 cords of wood. This past year was 100gals of fuel and 5 cords of wood. In today's market that is $2000 three years ago, wood was free, to $225 for oil and $500 for wood this past year.

[Revi]

Wow! 100 gallons is nothing (well not nothing, since even that costs). We use around 300 gallons, and I thought we were doing well. We love wood heat. We found that every human and 2 cats and a dog eventually end up in the room with the woodstove, and are put to sleep.

I love watching the fire. These new woodstoves with the glass front are awesome. I think with the things that are going on, having a pile of wood is real homeland security.

[TapME]

Going to work on the electric bill next. The electric hot water heater is on the list. Thought about a windmill but with cmp back dooring the people of the state I will not supply power to them after my use for nothing. I too will have cost for maintaining the power source as they do. This is their contribution to cleaner power

[Revi]

Here's a carbon footprint calculator that is fun. We ended up with a carbon footprint around a ton a month. That is easily offset by our woodlot. You will end up even better if you only burn 100 gallons a year for heat.

http://www.safeclimate.net/calculator/

[Revi]

A great way to cut the electric bill is solar hot water. We have a system that cost around $5000 with the rebate and it saves around $500 a year. I figure it's about twice as good as money in the bank, since it pays back at around 10% a year, whereas the bank is only giving around 5% now.

[TapME]

It gave me a 1970#'s for our house hold of 3 people. Now how does 3 acres of tree growth help us in the carbon area?

[Revi]

Well you beat us by over 300 pounds of CO2 per month! Three acres of woods would absorb about 6000 pounds of carbon per year. That's the weight of one and a half cords of wood that is grown each year on your three acres. An average cord weighs about two tons.

The reason that so much weight is going in the air is that each carbon atom takes two oxygen atoms with it and makes CO2, so It ends up weighing almost three times the original carbon source. For example a gallon of gas, which weighs around 6 and a quarter pounds makes around 19 pounds of carbon dioxide.

Here's a slightly complicated explanation:

http://www.slate.com/id/2152685

[Homestead Maple]

Here is an article from a website called Answers in Genesis that I found to be quite interesting.

Many articles and books have been written in recent years on the subject of global warming—much of the information confusing. Some contain much hysteria, like the special report in the April 3, 2006, issue of Time and an article in a recent National Geographic.1,2 Practically all the articles in these issues blame people and emphasize the potentially harmful effects of global warming. Even Hollywood, through the movie The Day After Tomorrow and others, aggressively promotes the idea of a coming, rapid ice age caused by global warming.3 Eighty-six prominent Christian leaders recently jumped on the bandwagon with the Evangelical Climate Initiative (ECI).4

But how is this information to be evaluated? We should first check the data. As with the creation/evolution issue, we need to separate interpretations from facts.
Athabasca Glacier

Photo courtesy Michael Oard

Athabasca Glacier, Canadian Rockies, was near the sign in 1890. It has since melted back to its current location due to global warming. (Click to enlarge.)
The Facts

Practically all atmospheric scientists (the author included) agree that global warming has occurred. The raging debate is over how much of it is caused by man and whether global warming will be harmful. Patrick Michaels and Robert Balling, climatologists and critics of greenhouse warming hype,5 write, “In the broadest perspective, global warming is a very real thing, undeniable from surface temperature readings taken over much of the planet in the last 100 years.”

The amount of warming since 1880 has been about 1.2°F (0.67°C).6 However, a certain percentage of this warming is likely due to natural fluctuations, especially on the sun.7 From about 1300 to 1880, the Little Ice Age8occurred, in which practically all the glaciers in the world advanced, whereas now they are receding. There was less energy from the sun during the Little Ice Age and more volcanic activity, which helped cool the surface of the earth.9,10 It is possible such natural long-term climatic cycles caused half of the 1.2°F (0.67°C) rise.

Meanwhile, since 1880 the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by about 30%. Other greenhouse gases, such as methane, have also increased. Researchers desire to compare how these greenhouse gases affect the climate in relation to CO2. So, they convert the buildup of other greenhouse gases into CO2 “equivalency units.” In other words, they change the climatic effect of the gases into one measure. The climatic effect of these greenhouse gases results in an increase of 30% in CO2 equivalency units. The increase in all greenhouse gases has the climatic effect of increasing CO2 by 60%, which increases global warming.
One Problem

Climate specialists run computer simulations using the above-noted formula, in which they double the amount of CO2 and see how much the temperature rises. These simulations are based on estimations and assumptions and not exact figures. The many types of simulations predict a temperature rise of 3 to 10°F. Unfortunately, many politicians and environmentalists take such imperfect climate simulations and claim them to be fact. This is problematic. It is no wonder we have a greenhouse scare. However, if all the greenhouse gases have caused an increase by 60% CO2 in equivalency units, and man has only warmed the atmosphere about 0.6°F, then these climate simulations are much too sensitive to the effects of CO2.
More Research Needed

What we really need is more careful research. All positions should have a say on the issue. Unfortunately, the media and proponents of significant technology-induced global warming have demonized many qualified critics and have accused them of conspiring with the oil companies. These are critics who do not feel that a logical case has been made to prove that manmade technologies are at fault.

All of us must study both sides of the global-warming issue (1 Thessalonians 5:21) to better understand what the Lord requires of us. Although God gave us the command to have dominion over the earth, He also instructs us to care for and be good stewards of it.

Michael Oard is a retired meteorologist from the National Weather Service in the USA. He has written numerous articles and authored or co-authored various books, including An Ice Age Caused by the Genesis Flood and The Weather Book.
Could Global Warming Cause Another Ice Age?

Some climate scientists believe that global warming will slow or stop the northward oceanic heat flow in the Atlantic Ocean, causing an ice age. Northern Europe is significantly warmer due to this ocean heat. The stopping of this flow was the basis for the Hollywood movie The Day After Tomorrow.

A new oceanic study, based on measurements over 47 years, claims that the northward heat transport has already decreased by 30%.1 Computer climate simulations suggested that such a decrease would require a global temperature increase of 7–11°F (4–6°C) after nearly a century.2 Some scientists believe that global warming will cause a more rapid climate change and that we need to act now.

So far, the reduced heat flow has caused no climatic effect in Europe. Moreover, Carl Wunsch of Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) believes the climatic significance of the northward heat transport is greatly overblown and that it is difficult to stop it.3 The MIT professor further writes that there are many unknowns associated with ocean and atmospheric climatic interactions, and that climate simulations have many difficulties. Besides, the prevailing winds drive the ocean currents and are mostly responsible for the northward heat transport. The addition of fresh water on the ocean’s surface will not slow the heat flow, which is an unsupported assumption made in climate simulations.

1. Bryden, H. L., Longworth, H. R., and Cunningham, S. A., Slowing of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation at 25° N., Nature 438:655–657, 2005.
2. Goss Levi, B., Is there a slowing in the Atlantic Ocean’s overturning circulation? Physics Today59(4):26–28, 2006.
3. Wunsch, C., Abrupt climate change: An alternative view, Quaternary Research 65:191–203, 2006.

* Movie Review: The Day After Tomorrow

[Revi]

Great article! It's pretty complicated with the North Atlantic Oscillation, global dimming and CO2 all working and causing different things to happen.

[TapME]

Our local newsman said this morning that the ice pack at the north pole was 25% large than it has been in decades, and the results were that global temps were down 1 degree. Any one else heard of these statements?

[tom jr.]

All I know is that its been a lot colder than normal around here than normal, and my snow cap is growing. I personaly think in my own arragent mind that g. warming is a crock, does any one remember the big acid rain scare of the early 1990's??? they said civilization would be extinct by 2000, Im still alive!!!!

[maple flats]

I agree with tom jr. I think the earth has cycled many times over the past 5 million years, and that any pattern seen in any period less than several hundred years could and likely is just a hiccup in the pattern. The environmentalist waccos and liberal press sensationalize things for a story. The last 5 ice ages had global warming as they ended. Where are we in a cycle? I do not know, nor do I believe anyone has a long enough pattern to possitively say either way. The last 5 global warmings were not caused by man and I have serious doubts whether they do or don't have the ability to do much. Last year they said the polar ice was melting at an alarming rate, now it is thicker than in decades, how can these both be right?
Do we polute too much? We all know we do and should clean up our act but to preach global warming as being caused by people I can't buy.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The one good thing I can say about global warming is that it might make people more conscience and lest wasteful. We are a wasteful nation as a whole.

[H. Walker]

A older maple man that I know, at 80 something years old can quote dates faster than a computer, told me of the maple season in 1945. There was all kinds of snow on the ground and lots of frost. The season lasted ONE day, then turned warm and the sap never ran after. What did they call it then, "global warming" wasn't even a thought of?

[Homestead Maple]

God is in control and after hearing all this global whining decided that we ought to have a real winter.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

If everyone else would realize that our world be be about 100 times a better place than it is now.

[pennslytucky]

heres some good reading:

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/search?q=global+warming

[TapME]

2% response and it make the consciences, and overwhelming response!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hholt]

What we need is a good volcano to blow it's top somewhere and thow up a big ash cloud and next thing you know we'll all be freezing our butts off and talking about how ****ed inconvenient it is.

[Homestead Maple]

Global Warming? New Data Shows Ice Is Back

Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:55 AM

By: Phil Brennan

Are the world's ice caps melting because of climate change, or are the reports just a lot of scare mongering by the advocates of the global warming theory?

Scare mongering appears to be the case, according to reports from the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) that reveal that almost all the allegedly “lost” ice has come back. A NOAA report shows that ice levels which had shrunk from 5 million square miles in January 2007 to just 1.5 million square miles in October, are almost back to their original levels.

Moreover, a Feb. 18 report in the London Daily Express showed that there is nearly a third more ice in Antarctica than usual, challenging the global warming crusaders and buttressing arguments of skeptics who deny that the world is undergoing global warming.

The Daily express recalls the photograph of polar bears clinging on to a melting iceberg which has been widely hailed as proof of the need to fight climate change and has been used by former Vice President Al Gore during his "Inconvenient Truth" lectures about mankind’s alleged impact on the global climate.

Gore fails to mention that the photograph was taken in the month of August when melting is normal. Or that the polar bear population has soared in recent years.

As winter roars in across the Northern Hemisphere, Mother Nature seems to have joined the ranks of the skeptics.

As the Express notes, scientists are saying the northern Hemisphere has endured its coldest winter in decades, adding that snow cover across the area is at its greatest since 1966. The newspaper cites the one exception — Western Europe, which had, until the weekend when temperatures plunged to as low as -10 C in some places, been basking in unseasonably warm weather.

Around the world, vast areas have been buried under some of the heaviest snowfalls in decades. Central and southern China, the United States, and Canada were hit hard by snowstorms. In China, snowfall was so heavy that over 100,000 houses collapsed under the weight of snow.

Jerusalem, Damascus, Amman, and northern Saudi Arabia report the heaviest falls in years and below-zero temperatures. In Afghanistan, snow and freezing weather killed 120 people. Even Baghdad had a snowstorm, the first in the memory of most residents.

AFP news reports icy temperatures have just swept through south China, stranding 180,000 people and leading to widespread power cuts just as the area was recovering from the worst weather in 50 years, the government said Monday. The latest cold snap has taken a severe toll in usually temperate Yunnan province, which has been struck by heavy snowfalls since Thursday, a government official from the provincial disaster relief office told AFP.

Twelve people have died there, state Xinhua news agency reported, and four remained missing as of Saturday.

An ongoing record-long spell of cold weather in Vietnam's northern region, which started on Jan. 14, has killed nearly 60,000 cattle, mainly bull and buffalo calves, local press reported Monday. By Feb. 17, the spell had killed a total of 59,962 cattle in the region, including 7,349 in the Ha Giang province, 6,400 in Lao Cai, and 5,571 in Bac Can province, said Hoang Kim Giao, director of the Animal Husbandry Department under the Vietnamese Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development, according to the Pioneer newspaper.

In Britain the temperatures plunged to -10 C in central England, according to the Express, which reports that experts say that February could end up as one of the coldest in Britain in the past 10 years with the freezing night-time conditions expected to stay around a frigid -8 C until at least the middle of the week. And the BBC reports that a bus company's efforts to cut global warming emissions have led to services being disrupted by cold weather.

Meanwhile Athens News reports that a raging snow storm that blanketed most of Greece over the weekend and continued into the early morning hours on Monday, plunging the country into sub-zero temperatures. The agency reported that public transport buses were at a standstill on Monday in the wider Athens area, while ships remained in ports, public services remained closed, and schools and courthouses in the more severely-stricken prefectures were also closed.

Scores of villages, mainly on the island of Crete, and in the prefectures of Evia, Argolida, Arcadia, Lakonia, Viotia, and the Cyclades islands were snowed in.

More than 100 villages were snowed-in on the island of Crete and temperatures in Athens dropped to -6 C before dawn, while the coldest temperatures were recorded in Kozani, Grevena, Kastoria and Florina, where they plunged to -12 C.

Temperatures in Athens dropped to -6 C before dawn, while the coldest temperatures were recorded in Kozani, Grevena, Kastoria and Florina, where they plunged to -12 C.

If global warming gets any worse we'll all freeze to death.

[Revi]

Here in Skowhegan we have at least 3 feet of global warming still on the ground. I would love to see a little maple sugar weather. It's supposed to be in the mid 30's. That might be enough to get things going, or it might not...

Whatever happens, we are having an old fashioned winter around here.

I don't think that it signals the end of the global warming problem, but it is a change from the past few winters.

[TapME]

Revi, WE have more of that warming stuff here at the falls too. I will predict that the snow will cause just a little rise in the rivers. What do you think?

[hholt]

Some times you have to look on the light side of things, and I couldn't help from thinking that this old right-leaning snowman is rapidly approaching a very inconvenient truth :^)

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b163/hholt/inconvenient.jpg


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b163/hholt/inconvenient2.jpg