keeping r/o from freezing?

[seandicare]

someone had posted a site that gave details on building an r/o....i am thinking about doing that for next year, but have a couple questions?

i don't have a heated area for this, would running the system in cold temps (teens and 20s) keep it warm enough to not freeze? ....or could it get too hot to run without damaging the membranes for say 10 hours continuous run?

would i need a heater in the supply tank ?

i am thinking of only building a unit with 1 or 2 membranes to start off. (limited budget) and expanding later. Anyone have an idea of what kind of concentrate would come out of say a 1 membrane setup, off a non-recycling run? with say a 2.2% starting sap?

thanks for any input you guys have on this

[Clinkis]

The RO cannot freeze. You would need to bring it inside at night. You don't need to heat sap long as its not frozen it will process it. It should be operated at temps above freezing. This style of RO with 1 or 2 membranes would remove 20-35% of your sap per pass and process around 5 gallons an hour. Most guys use a minimum of 3 membranes which will allow around 50% water removal per pass.

[seandicare]

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping that the heat generated from running the system would keep things warm enough to be able to run it overnight.

Guessing I'll need to figure a way to get heat to the shack


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[NH Maplemaker]

What we did with or first smaller RO was build an insulated cabinet on the wall that RO fit into. Then had a 100 watt light bulb in it that would keep RO and membranes from freezing ! worked great .

[Tweegs]

Doesn’t take much to frame up a small closet.
Did one that is 4x6 feet and divided that into 2 sections, 4x3 each.
One half houses the RO, insulated the floor, ceiling and walls. The other half is a utility closet.
Put in a heat lamp and a small ceramic heater in the RO section (I’ve had heat lamps burn out in the chicken coops…you haven’t lived until you’ve been cussed out by a chicken :lol:).

[seandicare]

thanks for the the ideas guys....all i have for electricity is a 100ft extension cord, so not wanting to run much wattage, like the heater....the light bulb MAY work..

i was thinking, i do have one the old Buddy propane heaters, if i can get it to work off a 20lb tank, that should work.....

i am still working on a design for my shack right now.......at this point i am using an old popup gazebo/tent with open sides.....so i can try and incorporate an insulated section for the r/o, as i build it

[maple flats]

Run 3 (100 watt) light bulbs off that extension cord and use a line voltage t-stat that will do low temps. I used to heat my RO room on 3 such bulbs (only 2 were needed at -10 F but I used 3 in case 1 blew in the night.) I never had it freeze in the RO room. I mounted a Hi-Lo thermometer (it records the hi and low temps since last set.) in the RO room to keep track. My RO room is only 3x5.5x6' high and it has 3" rigid foam insulation. Because it seemed to go thru lots of 100W incandescent bulbs in a year, I switched to a small portable elect. heater. That should not be run off a 100' ext. cord.
My t-stat can be set as low as 35 degrees, but I keep it at about 40.

[adk1]

I have a section in the sugarhouse for an ro. I will frame up a corner and use ridged insulation throughout. Will run a small ceramic cube Hester on a thermostat to heat. Luckily I have power at the sugarhouse so no worries there

[Mel]

What are guys doing that don't have power coming in? Running a big generator during a long multi-day coldspell just for a tiny bit of heat isn't too appealing.

[wiam]

My neighbor who ran his ro and vac pumps in the woods on a generator used a propane heater so he did not need to have power 24/7. This ran all winter to keep ro warm.

[Clamer33]

I have a CDL hobby RO. When we build our sugarhouse last year we insulated the walls only with R12. But didn't do the ceiling. I installed a wood stove in the corner about 25 feet from my RO. Though it can be drained to allow the the sugarhouse to freeze. I have found that lighting a fire at least once a day sometimes twice during long cold snaps keeps the unit from freezing. However it hasn't run this week since last Friday, so I drained it before we left and stop out everyday late afternoon to light a fire in the wood stove and I have no issues.

[Mel]

My neighbor who ran his ro and vac pumps in the woods on a generator used a propane heater so he did not need to have power 24/7. This ran all winter to keep ro warm.

Do you know what kind of heater? I was checking out the tank top type ones but I think they would go through a 20 pounder in a day or two. I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to space heating with propane.

[seandicare]

not sure about the tank top heaters, but the buddy heater I had would go through a 1 lb tank in 5-8 hours.

[wiam]

This was like a small wall heater. Like what would be used in a house. I know he used a lot of propane.this was hooked to the large tank that ran a 35 kW genset b

[sugarsand]

We store our RO in a heated cubicle that we built with rigid foam on all sides except floor. Ro is on wheels that is rolled back in for storage. Wired with 2 incandesant bulbs on a thermostat set for 50 degrees. This saves trying to heat a big area.

sugarsand

[lastwoodsman]

someone had posted a site that gave details on building an r/o....i am thinking about doing that for next year, but have a couple questions?

i don't have a heated area for this, would running the system in cold temps (teens and 20s) keep it warm enough to not freeze? ....or could it get too hot to run without damaging the membranes for say 10 hours continuous run?

would i need a heater in the supply tank ?

i am thinking of only building a unit with 1 or 2 membranes to start off. (limited budget) and expanding later. Anyone have an idea of what kind of concentrate would come out of say a 1 membrane setup, off a non-recycling run? with say a 2.2% starting sap?

thanks for any input you guys have on this

On my deer run 125GHP one membrane I am running 2% sap through once bringing it up to 6.5 /7. Using the recycling valve.
I installed a propane wall heater (ventless) in the sugar house this year and on its lowest setting it keeps the sugar house around 4o degrees.
Its been running almost a month on a 100lber. If the nights are warm its just on pilot. Its about a 30,000 BTU heater like they use in a fishhouse. In fact a buddy gave it to me as it was too much for his fishhouse.

[Mel]

On my deer run 125GHP one membrane I am running 2% sap through once bringing it up to 6.5 /7. Using the recycling valve.
I installed a propane wall heater (ventless) in the sugar house this year and on its lowest setting it keeps the sugar house around 4o degrees.
Its been running almost a month on a 100lber. If the nights are warm its just on pilot. Its about a 30,000 BTU heater like they use in a fishhouse. In fact a buddy gave it to me as it was too much for his fishhouse.

Sounds like something I should check out more. Will it ramp itself up & down to meet heatload, like a heater with a thermostat? The ones I was looking at, you just set to a certain heat output & leave it there. Like a BBQ burner, sort of.

[maple flats]

I bought a propane thru the wall, direct vent 8,000 BTU heater that runs off a t-stat. I haven't hooked it up yet, but will this summer for next year. I'm thinking that most of the winter except the coldest times the pilot light should keep the RO room above freezing. I believe it was called a HouseWarmer. As I searched for specs on it, I find it is discontinued, but I found one slightly smaller, a Newport by Dickinson, sold to heat the cabin on a boat. Maybe there are others in that category. I however see that being for a boat, they jack the price up. I pd under $500 for the 8,000 BTU Housewarmer, a 5500-7500 Newport sells for over $800. The HouseWarmer may have been low priced for clearance, I did buy it in the off season.

[lastwoodsman]

It has a thermostat that will hold a constant temp depending on where the dial is set. I always have it on low even if the nights go down to 20 degrees.