hobby or business.

[cjmiller272]

So i have an issue with zoning. I tap my trees in country and evaporate in town. City insists on me getting commercial zoning because i sell some to support the habit. My argument is that im truly only a hobby. I tapped 51 taps, this year and picked up 75 gallons of sap 2%. And only produced about 10 gallons syrup. Best year i had i got 15. So my argument is leader classifys under 150 taps as a hobby. And my state doesnt require a license until $5000 gross sales

[David in MI]

Do you evaporate at your home?

[cjmiller272]

Yes i evaporate in my garage, sell some word of mouth and farmers market, just finally sold my last 2014 jar in february

[Urban Sugarmaker]

If I were you I would just go about your business and continue. Neither the City nor zoning board is your friend, and I wouldn't be talking them. Maybe you can find a loophole for agriculture. How do they know about your operation? Are they asking for commercial zoning because you are operating a store front at your home where customers actually come to you? If so, I doubt you will get a use variance for commercial use in a residential zone. Laws and zoning vary widely by city and state, but maybe asking an attorney is the way to go. I know for me that I am not allowed to have a place of business at my home where customers could come to make transactions. I do have a permit that specifically allows a maple evaporator however. I'd be interested to see how you make out with this.

[cjmiller272]

Sounds like they want me get commercial zoning. I have nosy retired neighbors filing complaints non stop. Parking, dogs, smoke, auto repairs, cats, lawn, sidewalk...etc so they are the ones complaining. I havent had one customer knock on my door in a year.

[David in MI]

I'd look into the how commercial vs residential zoning is defined in your municipality. Is the only reason they want you zoned commercially the fact that you make syrup?

Edited to add: The State of Wisconsin has some useful information online regarding the classification of property. In fact, you may be able to re-classify the land on which you are tapping your trees. In Michigan, I was able to do this and it lowered my taxes significantly.

[cjmiller272]

Im not concerned with the zoning of my taps. Its my place intown that their bothering me about, and yes its just the "maple syrup business" being run out of my home that they want me get permitted for.

[Russell Lampron]

What is the cost of getting re-zoned and permitted? If it isn't very much it may be worth doing. Then you can snub your nose at the nosy neighbors and put a sign out front to sell your syrup. That would piss them off !!!

[Michael Greer]

My trees aren't mine at all, and are located on six different blocks here in the Village, and belong to 22 of my fellow townsfolk. My sugarhouse is right in the middle of the neighborhood. The code office wouldn't give me a permit for a "sugarhouse" or even for an "agricultural Building", so we finally settled on a permit for a "shed" with no comment upon what went on in that shed. The only zoning law they could find that pertained to my request was one that says I'm not allowed to annoy my neighbors with smoke. My neighbors all get a little bit of maple syrup, and a cheerful invitation to come and watch the process. I don't believe anyone will ever complain.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

It's unfortunate that some people have nothing better to do in life but meddle in other people's business. If the town says you need a Use Variance, don't bother. You will just waste your time and resources. It's a fight you cannot win. If they say you need a permit of some sort, then I think you have a chance. Many people run businesses from their homes but don't have customers at that physical location. What if you just operate normally but deliver your products to customers and farm markets? You didn't say that they don't want you processing syrup on your property did you? Again, I process all my syrup at my house but I don't run a business there.

Also, I re-read your post and it seems like the town is only bothering you because someone complained. So, they have to address it. I don't see how they can stop you from boiling though. Is that what they are doing?

[Maple Man 85]

I'd have your "customers" and a "charitable contribution" to your "hobby" and in return they receive syrup for their contribution.:cool:

Maple Man 85

[jmayerl]

Under Wisconsin code you are operating illegally as you cannot purchase sap to make syrup without a commercial license.

[cjmiller272]

Ok so city says i need a permit to run a business, proven by the fact that i sold at a farmers market to which someone photographed and documented. They also said my permit would most likely be denied due complaints of bothersome odor and noise. I never purchased sap, i boiled a friends overflow. Fire inspector also visited me as well today, stated his concerns from his veiwpoint, i.e. propane tank, electrical not hardwired (no plugs) torch for lighting fire, trip hazards all would prevent me from getting a permit. Also that my homemade evap is not U.L. approved appliance and wouldnt fly. He also did the favor of calling county health dept! To which im all good except that in WI any syrup sold must be packaged in a dedicated food kitchen other than home. I knew that just tried to fly under radar to support my hobby

[cjmiller272]

I tried to pay him for his sap, he wouldnt accept any money, so i told him hes getting syrup from me

[JoeJ]

All I can say is that I am really happy that I live in good old backward Vermont. Good luck with your battle

[Sinzibuckwud]

Your argument is valid in my eyes
If your state/county has a minimum sales level to be qualified as a business and you do not meet those requirements..you are not a business and do not require commercial property.
It might be best to talk with a lawyer about your situation, they know your state/county laws better than anyone.

[cjmiller272]

Has anyone big or small had to make sure their evaporator was U.L. approved? Leaders website makes no mention of theirs being U.L. the fire inspector told me any appliance used in a commercial setting must have that certification

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Has anyone big or small had to make sure their evaporator was U.L. approved? Leaders website makes no mention of theirs being U.L. the fire inspector told me any appliance used in a commercial setting must have that certification

I went through this exact process where I live when getting a permit to put my evaporator in the garage. The City here allows UL approved wood burning appliances in garages and the stack has to meet all the national fire code clearances for height and distance from the ridge and other structures. Diagrams of this can be googled. In my case I gave them the Leader Half Pint instruction manual, although I don't have a half pint. They just wanted to know more about these units. Ultimately they approved the permit and only required that my chimney be UL listed. I installed Simpson Duravent triple wall after the first 5 feet or so of single wall SS pipe. I've never had a complaint from anyone and I keep my permit on the wall in case anyone does come over and ask about it. I would not have sought a permit, but I was paranoid about smoke and steam causing an attraction. I only ever attracted my neighbor across the street who thinks it's great that I am making syrup. No anonymous calls to FD either.

Unfortunately, I don't think you will find any evaporator with a UL listing. You can search for my thread here. I think it's called "UL Compliance".

[DuncanFTGC/SS]

Have you looked into Wisconsin's Cottage Food Laws, and how they may affect you? I have only just started looking into them, but do not understand them well enough to really offer any advice.

[n8hutch]

Have you considered moving to another state:lol:? I seriously don't know how people deal with all this red tape . Every year someone is trying to take something away from you. We are Hardly even landowners in the minds of some, we just rent our property's from the towns or state and they tell us what we can & can not do with it. This is crazy.

I give you credit for keeping it together, I personally would have probably said somethings that I would have regretted and left the meetings you have gone to fighting Mad.

[DuncanFTGC/SS]

Have you considered moving to another state:lol:? I seriously don't know how people deal with all this red tape . Every year someone is trying to take something away from you. We are Hardly even landowners in the minds of some, we just rent our property's from the towns or state and they tell us what we can & can not do with it. This is crazy.

I give you credit for keeping it together, I personally would have probably said somethings that I would have regretted and left the meetings you have gone to fighting Mad.

This is actually not a bad state to do business in, especially on the smaller scale. Though there is much variance between locations, throughout the state. Getting angry rarely helps any situation, and there is usually a loop hole, or definition, or small detail that can be used to ones advantage. Sometimes if you ask the inspectors/officials what they would do, if they were you your situation, it will bring some really interesting things to light.

[cjmiller272]

I have read and understand the bulk of our states cottage food laws from datcp. Those are just regulations regarding the food supply. And mostly fairly lax in regards to maple, honey, sorghum. Minus the need to finish/bottle in a license(able) environment when only doing 50taps. Most of the headache is coming from the city level. Im sure their will be a new ordinance by next year specific to maple syrup. Our town just hit beekeepers this winter.

[cjmiller272]

Zoning guy told me to find a quiet home in the country, fire inspector touched on the U.L. requirement for any appliance (arch) in my space and dedicated space. Health department is trying to help me find a legal kitchen to package in

[Bucket Head]

Can I ask what did they did to the bee keepers?

And after reading this post, if I had bee's in your town, I would be training them to "attack"...

Too bad the maple's can't be trained.

I applaud your efforts and patience.

Steve

[cjmiller272]

http://m.dailyunion.com/news/article_54303d9a-e090-11e5-82d1-03ee1d361e89.html?mode=jqm

[Sinzibuckwud]

Zoning guy told me to find a quiet home in the country, fire inspector touched on the U.L. requirement for any appliance (arch) in my space and dedicated space. Health department is trying to help me find a legal kitchen to package in
lol
zoning guy is right, It is highly unlikely to get zoning changed in a residential neighborhood in developed areas as opposed to out in the country.
it affects property value, home value, and taxes of you and those around you...good luck, if it were me, I would go on making it and just give away what I didn't need, or find another location I could make it so I could sell.

[CampHamp]

I looked quickly at the Fort Atkinson zoning ordinance (assuming you operate in the same city as the "beekeeping issue") and it seems that the path one takes to operate a home business (where the business is clearly secondary to the residential use) is to get a permit from the Building Inspector. It doesn't seem necessary to change your zoning (not worth the fight for selling a few gallons a year, anyway). On page 81 of the Ordinance (http://www.fortatkinsonwi.net/Zoning_Code.pdf) you will see what you need to have that permit granted.

[Bucket Head]

Only a maximum of three hives can be kept? I've seen more bee's than that in some attics!

Anyway, so basically it's a limited "go" on the bee keeping but a "no" on the syrup making.

Has someone tried explaining to the officials that no one can be stung and go into shock from a maple tree sting?

Its very troubling reading these posts.

Steve

[cjmiller272]

Yes i would need a permit. But permit is approved only if the occupation does not bother the neighborhood, with lights, glares, traffic, smells, sounds, etc.. and since a neighbor has complained about smell and sound, the inspector said i would get denied, i would have the chance to disprove their claim for denial. Even if that all works, because the fire inspector is now involved, they can still deny the permit based on fire safety concerns. The city has used the fire inspector angle when others in similar positions pushed back. I can recall 2 specific businesses that happened to in last 3 years

[CampHamp]

I see what you're saying. It's a tough question, whether to take this head-on and apply for the permit or to see if the City takes further action. I think I would stop selling the syrup until this blows over and just use it in trade for now (use it for discounted work or as a "tip" for services), so when asked you can say you no longer sell it. If you want to get bigger, then maybe you'll need to upgrade your stack (or whatever else the Fire Marshall requires) and make sure you burn dry wood with lots of air (no smoke). Maple steam? Who could complain about maple steam!

[jmayerl]

I tried to pay him for his sap, he wouldnt accept any money, so i told him hes getting syrup from me
Ok, just be careful what you say and how you say it when posting to the entire world on the Internet. Your original post specifically stated you purchase sap. You since went back and edited multiple posts to say someone gave you sap. On this front I suggest you just go to the DATCP website and review the WIs regulations.
http://datcp.wi.gov/Food/Honey_and_Maple_Syrup/Selling_Maple_Syrup/?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
Even if you don't sell over 5K, you are expected to abide by the rules they set forth, Wisconsin is much more stringent on food laws than other states.

[cjmiller272]

AUTHORITY:
§101.14 The chief of every fire department or their inspectors shall provide for the inspection of every public building and place of employment to determine and cause to be eliminated any fire hazard or any violation of any law relating to fire hazards or to the prevention of fires. The secretary and any deputy may at all reasonable hours enter into and upon all buildings, premises and public thoroughfares excepting only the interior of private dwellings, for the purpose of ascertaining and causing to be corrected any condition liable to cause fire, or any violation of any law or order relating to the fire hazard or the prevention of fire.
Wis. Adm. Code SPS 314 Fire Prevention
Fort Atkinson Ordinance Chapter 34 Fire Prevention and Fire Protection

NOTIFICATION AND DUTY TO COMPLY STATEMENT
As owner or occupant, you are hereby notified of the fire code violations observed on the inspection date(s) identified below. All fire code violations shall be corrected by the compliance date(s) identified below. Oversights and omissions not cited do not constitute code compliance.

RIGHT OF APPEAL
Any person with standing shall be permitted to appeal a decision of the AHJ to the Board of Appeals when it is claimed that any one or more of the following conditions exist: (1) The true intent of the Code has been incorrectly interpreted; (2) The provisions of the Code do not fully apply; (3) A decision is unreasonable or arbitrary as it applies to alternatives or new materials.

An appeal shall be submitted to the AHJ in writing within 30 calendar days of notification of violation. The appeal shall outline all of the following: (1) The Code provision(s) from which relief is sought; (2) A statement indicating which provisions of 1.10.4.1 apply (3) Justification as to the applicability of the provision(s) cited in 1.10.4.1; (4) A requested remedy; (5) Justification for the requested remedy stating specifically how the Code is complied with, public safety is secured, and fire fighter safety is secured.


NEW CODE VIOLATIONS OBSERVED SECTION
Code # Code Text Action Required Found Compliance Due Date
1:11.5.1.7 Maple syrup cooking and vaporizing operations. All heating appliances shall be approved or listed. Provide documentation of heating appliance listing and proper installation. Detached garage. Cease maple syrup cooking and vaporizing operations until all approvals have been granted.
1:11.5.4 Vents. All chimneys, smokestacks, or similar devices for conveying smoke or hot gases to the outer air and the stoves, furnaces, incinerators, boilers, or any other heat-producing devices or appliances shall be installed and maintained in accordance with NFPA 54 and NFPA 211. All heat producing appliances shall be properly vented to the outside. Provide vent documentation demonstrating compliance. Detached garage. 05/06/2016
58:5.20.1 LP Gas Heating Appliances. New residential, commercial, and industrial LP-Gas consuming appliances shall be approved. All LP-Gas heating appliances shall be listed and approved for the intended location and use. The installation shall be in accordance with the terms of the listing and manufacturers recommendations. Detached garage. 05/06/2016
1: 69.5.2.1.1



1:69.5.2.1.3 LP Gas Cylinder Storage and Use.
Cylinders in storage shall be located to minimize
exposure to excessive temperature rises, physical damage, or tampering.

Cylinders stored in buildings in accordance with 69.5.3 shall not be located near exits, near stairways, or in
areas normally used, or intended to be used, for the safe egress of occupants. Remove all LP-Gas cylinders from the detached garage if/when the maple syrup cooking and vaporizing operations are approved and in operation. Otherwise, properly locate cylinders with respect to other exposures. Detached garage. 05/06/2016
1: 66.9.6.2.2 Flammable & Combustible Liquids Storage. For the occupancies specified in 66.9.6.2.1, storage in excess of 10 gal (38 L) of Class I and Class II liquids combined or in excess of 60 gal (227 L) of Class IIIA liquids shall be permitted where stored in flammable liquids storage cabinets and where the total aggregate quantity does not exceed 180 gal. Remove all flammable and combustible liquids from the detached garage if/when the maple syrup cooking and vaporizing operations are approved and in operation. Otherwise, maintain the storage limits. Detached garage. 05/06/2016
1:61.1.1.1 Aerosol products. The manufacture, storage, use, handling, and display of aerosol products shall comply with the requirements of Chapter 61; NFPA 30B, Code for the Manufacture and Storage of Aerosol Products; and Sections 60.1 through 60.4 of this Code. Remove all flammable and combustible aerosol products from the detached garage if/when the maple syrup cooking and vaporizing operations are approved and in operation. Otherwise, maintain the storage limits. Detached garage. 05/06/2016
1:11.1.2.1 Electrical Work. All new electrical wiring, fixtures, appliances and equipment shall be installed in accordance with NFPA 70, National Electrical Code. Install permanent wiring as appropriate to power all electrical appliances and devices. Detached garage. 05/06/2016
1:11.1.10 Electrical Covers
All panel board and switch boards, pull boxes, junction boxes, switches, receptacles, and conduit bodies shall be provided with covers compatible with the box or conduit body construction and suitable for the conditions of use. Provide covers compatible with the box and keep all breaker panel cover doors closed. Detached garage. 05/06/2016
1:11.1.7 Extension Cords
Extension cords shall be plugged directly into an approved receptacle, power tap, or multiplug adapter and shall, except for approved multiplug extension cords, serve only one portable appliance.

The ampacity of the extension cords shall not be less than the rated capacity of the portable appliance supplied by the cord.

The extension cords shall be maintained in good condition without splices, deterioration, or damage.

Extension cords shall be grounded when servicing grounded portable appliances.

Extension cords and flexible cords shall not be affixed to structures; extend through walls, ceilings, or floors, or under doors or floor coverings; or be subject to environmental or physical damage.

Extension cords shall not be used as a substitute for permanent wiring. Where permitted by insurance and company policy, ensure all extension cords are listed and installed, used and maintained in accordance with their listing and manufacturers recommendations. Extension cords are only intended to temporarily serve one portable appliance. Otherwise, remove all extension cords and where needed, install flexible power cords in accordance with NFPA 70, National Electrical Code. Detached garage. 05/06/2016
1:11.1.6 Relocatable Power Taps
Relocatable power taps shall be of the polarized or grounded type with overcurrent protection and shall be listed.

The relocatable power taps shall be directly connected to a permanently installed receptacle.

Relocatable power tap cords shall not extend through walls, ceilings, or floors; under doors or floor coverings; or be subject to environmental or physical damage. Where permitted by insurance and company policy, ensure all relocatable power taps are: (1) installed, used and maintained in accordance with its listing and limitations and the manufacturers’ instructions; (2) plugged directly into a permanently installed receptacle; (3) not plugged into another relocatable power tap or extension cord ; not attached to structures; not extending through walls, ceilings, floors, cabinets, or under doors or floor coverings; and (4) located and protected from environmental or physical damage. Detached garage. 05/06/2016

[cjmiller272]

Going Down the List
bear in mind his inspection happened 8-10 days after last boil.
*No arches are approved or listed
*My chimney is insulated doublewall stainless installed to directions and clearances
*I have a wall mount LP gas garage heater 14 ft from arch
*My LP tank was still connected to my finisher 6 ft from arch
*Gas can was 4 ft away from arch (not when arch was in use)
*Aerosol products were stored 14 ft from arch in a cabinet
*Permanent wiring (romex) was installed 2 years ago
*Outlet covers were not installed (my bad)
*Extension cords were present (its a garage) but not even in use. I wired in outlets where I wanted them 2 yrs ago
*I have one power strip at my work bench

[n8hutch]

Sounds to me like their throwing the book at you. I might be inclined to throw the book back threaten to file a law suit under the 9th Amendment of the US Constitution. Maybe ask them if they know what that is. Have a little fun with them anyway. There getting their milage out of you. All of this won't work of course but it sounds to me like they don't want you there anyway.

[Hannah]

From what I understand this all stems from photos taken of the selling of maple syrup at the farmers market? Why not stop selling at the farmers market and call it personal use? Do you make that much off the farmers market or are they now going to piss with you whether or not you sell it? Seems to me as long as you don't make a dime on it they can't say anything about it, no different than canning green beans or tomato juice from your garden or having a fire pit in the back yard.

[cjmiller272]

It stems from neighbors who are a bit nosey. Like take photos through my windows of my pets, then calling city to see if they are licensed nosey. But yes neighbors complained last year about syrup but had no claim because it was a hobby. This year they got proof of me selling at farmers market and turned it in to the city. Thats when the city mailed me a letter stating that i had an unpermitted business. I only sold at the market because i make more than id ever use, want to grow into a business down the road. Ive sold maybe $600 syrup total over 3 yrs. I spent $60 last week to rent a kitchen to bottle some of this years and test my press. I plan to waste the cities resources pursuing this battle, even though ive moved into a sugar shack out of city limits!

[Urban Sugarmaker]

I plan to waste the cities resources pursuing this battle, even though ive moved into a sugar shack out of city limits!

Good for you. Sometimes you actually can fight city hall. There have been a few recent cases here (unrelated to maple) where I live and the city lost. They can be defeated. I just hope you have the resources to take them on.