Leader check valve spiles

[treehugger]

I use Leader check valves. I have had to reseat them 4-5 times already this year. I have actually had 2 drop lines work their way out of the tree, but mostly they just get loose and create a vacuum leak. Has anyone else experienced this too?

[DrTimPerkins]

I use Leader check valves. I have had to reseat them 4-5 times already this year. I have actually had 2 drop lines work their way out of the tree, but mostly they just get loose and create a vacuum leak. Has anyone else experienced this too?

Is this the Stubby/Adapter combination (black) or the CV2 (clear)? We've never had any heaving with the CV2. Polycarbonate sticks in the tree far better than nylon. All nylon spouts seem to be more prone to loosening up. Since we switched to polycarbonate spouts, the issue with spout heaving has almost totally gone away.

[Mark-NH]

Cv2's do indeed stay in place. So much easier to maintain than the 2 piece system

[Russell Lampron]

When I was using the 2 piece stubby and check valve I use to have to go around and re-seat a lot of them after a hard freeze. A real pain when I work an 8 to 5 job and can only get into the woods on weekends to fix leaks. Since I have switched over to the CV 2's I haven't had to do that. The drop lines seal better on the CV 2's as well. The tighter taps and lack of micro leaks has really helped with the sap yield and time spent fixing leaks.

[Cedar Eater]

Is the CV2 reusable? I've been thinking that the purpose of a two piece system was to reuse the spile after the initial year when it was used directly in the tree. Is there a different adapter that allows this for the CV2?

[treehugger]

I'm having problems with the CV2 spiles.

[Ryan Mahar]

We have put in over 3000 this year and they all have held strong. WE have been using them since they came out. They stick in the tree great for us. Is it possible maybe your drilling technique is creating a slightly imperfect hole or too big of a hole?? Just a thought?

[treehugger]

We have put in over 3000 this year and they all have held strong. WE have been using them since they came out. They stick in the tree great for us. Is it possible maybe your drilling technique is creating a slightly imperfect hole or too big of a hole?? Just a thought?



Human error is always a possibility. But if anything, I may have not hit them in hard enough from the start. I usually hit them until they stop vibrating then stop. Maybe an extra whack is what's needed. That's why I posed the question today. Before I adjust my technique, I wanted to see if it was a common problem.

[ennismaple]

Any of the clear polycarbonate spouts seem to hold the tree very well. We generally don't need to re-seat the original CV's either as long as they were properly seated in the first place. It is a fine line between splitting the sapwood and having half your spouts with micro-leaks!

[DrTimPerkins]

Is the CV2 reusable?

Neither the CV adapter nor the CV2 are meant to be reusable.

[Bruce L]

I could say it needs a woman's touch. My wife tapped in all of the check valves (original ones), I drill and stick the check valve in so she doesn't have to look for the hole.She didn't break any,last year our teenage son broke 6 in his first 100

[1arch]

We used both the black 2 piece and the CV2 clear spouts last year. In comparison the CV2 clear spouts took a bit more effort to pop out after the season ended, leading me to believe they wouldn't push out as easy with the freeze thaw cycles of the season.

[ryebrye]

I use Leader check valves. I have had to reseat them 4-5 times already this year. I have actually had 2 drop lines work their way out of the tree, but mostly they just get loose and create a vacuum leak. Has anyone else experienced this too?

I have the same issue with cv2s

After every hard freeze I walk the woods and gently reseat them all. I've only got 110 taps so it isn't bad.

I've never had any work their way out of the tree.

(I assume my drilling technique is inadequate despite my best efforts to follow the practices I've seen people like Glen Goodrich demonstrate on YouTube.)

I'm on a hybrid vacuum / 3/16 setup and reseating the taps makes a noticeable difference on vacuum at the top of the line - it will typically add a half inch to an inch of vacuum even if there was no noticeable leaks from them before reseating.

If there are drop lines that obviously don't have columns of sap forming in them I reseat those first and they make the biggest difference. It's usually just a handful that are in that state.

... If I didn't do the reseating thing I'd still be over 25-27" on the guages, after reseating them they can get up to 28.5+" so it's worth the little bit of effort

[sapmaple]

I've used the two piece check valve for several years since they came out and have never gone back and had to reseat them (except for some my brother tapped and he did not get them in firm enough to begin with) and we have had very good vac levels and excellent production numbers I've not see the backing out issue people are describing I no they will not do this but would love to see them make the adapter out of clear polycarbonate!

[northwoods_forestry]

This is our second season using the CV2. I have had to reseat a couple dozen out of 300, mostly in red maples. It also appears that if you reseat the spouts once, they tend to work themselves loose again. Is this an indication that the original tap hole was imperfect and/or the softer wood of red maples is more prone to drilling error?

[GeneralStark]

For those of you having issues with CV2s, what type and size bit are you using to drill your holes? Are you tapping when the tree is frozen or thawed? How are you driving the spout and are you sure it was fully seated to begin with?

How do you know for certain that they are leaking and need to be re-set? Is it possible you actually have some leaky trees?

I have used cv2s for two seasons and other polycarbonate spouts for several seasons have not had issue with the tapholes leaking. I do have an occasional leaky tree however. I use a 5/16" tapping bit and tap when the trees are frozen.

[northwoods_forestry]

5/16th Canadian tapping bit and generally drilling while the trees are frozen. Spiles are tapped in until vibration ceases. Leaks are suspected when a continuous series of air bubbles are observed coming from the spile and entering the drop line (sap racing into mainline manifold leads alerts me to the problem lateral line and hence to the leaky tap hole). Once the spile is reseated, the air bubble formation either ceases or is slowed.

[Russell Lampron]

I have used the CV2's 100% for 2 seasons and 100 the season before to check them out. I have had 6 or so out of 1500 break when installing them and also tap when the trees are frozen. I tap mostly red maples and do have to go back and re-seat some of them after the trees thaw. After they have been re-seated I haven't had any loosen again. I tap them in with the flat side of a pair of linesman's pliers and tap them in until the tap tap tap sound changes to a thud. I had the drop line come off of one yesterday after a tree fell across the lateral. The spout didn't break or loosen in the tree.

[treehugger]

5/16th Canadian tapping bit and generally drilling while the trees are frozen. Spiles are tapped in until vibration ceases. Leaks are suspected when a continuous series of air bubbles are observed coming from the spile and entering the drop line (sap racing into mainline manifold leads alerts me to the problem lateral line and hence to the leaky tap hole). Once the spile is reseated, the air bubble formation either ceases or is slowed.

I ditto what you said. Same symptoms and problems.

[DrTimPerkins]

I ditto what you said. Same symptoms and problems.

Two thoughts:

1. They were not seated properly the first time or the hole had some flaw. The best way to know whether a spout is in deep enough is sound. Tink, tink, tink, thud - stop.
2. Trees that are running always also produce gas. These start as very small bubbles, but quickly grow once they get to the tubing.

In either case, the problem with overdriving spouts is that it leads to microleaks at the tree-spout interface. Hitting them again will help temporarily, then they'll begin to leak again, hit them again, etc.