sap to syrup ratio seems to be off

[gbwaterski]

Hi i have boiled roughly 800 gallons and only have finished 8.5 gallons of syrup. This seems to be way off from the 86/ sugar content rule. My syrup has averaged 2.58% sugar. I am using a calibrated refratometer and have cheked it to RO to make sure it reads zero on RO. Am I missing something or why would my sap to syrup ratio be this low. I have been finishing to 86 brixs

[Cedar Eater]

I think you mean 68 brix, not 86 brix. If not, well there's your problem.

[TerryEspo]

I sure hope that was a typo, 86 yikes !!

[wnybassman]

I think he is talking about the 86 divided by the sugar percentage rule, to give you the ratio.

[gbwaterski]

yes i was talking about 86 divided by sugar content. This should give you how many gallons of sap will equal one gallon of syrup. I finish to 66 brix

[saphound]

Somethin ain't right here..should be over 20 gals.:confused: Edit: Actually a little over 23 gals

[mellondome]

Are you keeping the right ro stream?

[unc23win]

How much do you think is in your evaporator? I'm not sure how big a half pint is but unless you boil it all down you won't get 20 gallons I'd say you might get a quick possibly big draw next time. I prefer the rule of 87 rather than 86.

[rjoly]

Jared

Sugar is sugar if you have 2.58% sugar then you have gotten 20 gallons. I would start looking for where you are loosing your sugar, Better check your RO you are most lickly loosing it there. Check your your Permeate water. Take a gallon boil it down and see if you have sugar there. i bet your problem is there.



Ray

[unc23win]

Jared

Sugar is sugar if you have 2.58% sugar then you have gotten 20 gallons. I would start looking for where you are loosing your sugar, Better check your RO you are most lickly loosing it there. Check your your Permeate water. Take a gallon boil it down and see if you have sugar there. i bet your problem is there.



Ray

Excuse me but I don't know what you are talking about sugar is sugar I was asking how much syrup could possibly still be in his evaporator if he was continuously boiling he might put in 800 gallons worth of raw sap he won't get all 20 worth of syrup unless he boils it completly down. Idk about you but most people do not boil it all down on the first boil or maybe it wasn't the first boil I guess that wasn't clear. Only after the pans are sweetened do you start to get close to what you put in that day. But like I said I have no idea how much a half pint would hold. For instance my evaporator holds about 30-35 gallons worth of syrup I won't get out until the last boil. Sugar is sugar whatever thanks for the clarification.

[Russell Lampron]

There's a lot of variables in play here. Things like how are you measuring your sap to get the 800 gallons number? If you are going by the numbers on a plastic tank the only ones that are close to being accurate are the cage tanks. How many gallons of sap are still in the evaporator when you shut down? How sweet are you concentrating to? There will still be a lot of sugar in the evaporator and if you know how many gallons that is and what the sugar content is you can figure out how much syrup that will make and adjust your total from there. The rule of 86 doesn't work anymore as the density of finished syrup has gone up since that rule was made.

[saphound]

I knew what you meant, unc23. It's not clear if he got it all out of his pan but sounds like he did. you would think if there were 15 gals of syrup left in his pan, he would see that and not start this topic quite yet. Even using the rule of 88 is still over 22 gals. I'm wondering if the homemade RO is working properly?

[Ed R]

How long are you holding the sap and are you taking the sap reading after gathering or before boiling? Microbes can chew up a lot of sugar if the sap sits for a while even if the sap is kept cold.

[gbwaterski]

I check my RO hourly and no sugar is in the RO water. I have not emptied my pan yet but when I filled my pan it took 12 gallons of sap. I am measuring my sap volume with an impeller style water meter plus monitoring how many 55 gallon drums I go through. I just measured my concentration in my pan it ranges from 15%-25%. That being said the average would be 20%. 86/20=4.3 gallons of sap to make a gallon of syrup. 12/4.3=2.79 gallons in the pan. that would give me a total of 11.29 gallons. That sill doesn't come out to what I think I should be getting.

I run my sap the same day I collect it. I just verified my syrup with my hydrometer and the concentration is correct.

[gbwaterski]

I check my RO hourly and no sugar is in the RO water. I have not emptied my pan yet but when I filled my pan it took 12 gallons of sap. I am measuring my sap volume with an impeller style water meter plus monitoring how many 55 gallon drums I go through. I just measured my concentration in my pan it ranges from 15%-25%. That being said the average would be 20%. 86/20=4.3 gallons of sap to make a gallon of syrup. 12/4.3=2.79 gallons in the pan. that would give me a total of 11.29 gallons. That sill doesn't come out to what I think I should be getting.

I run my sap the same day I collect it. I just verified my syrup with my hydrometer and the concentration is correct.

[happy thoughts]

I just measured my concentration in my pan it ranges from 15%-25%. That being said the average would be 20%. 86/20=4.3 gallons of sap to make a gallon of syrup. 12/4.3=2.79 gallons in the pan. that would give me a total of 11.29 gallons. That sill doesn't come out to what I think I should be getting.


If I remember correctly the jones rule can only be used for sap out of the tree. It's a weight/volume thing where the weight of sugar in low concentration sap is equal to it's volume or near enough. After the concentration goes up the calculations can get wonky and the rule doesn't apply well. I don't RO and I'm not enough of a math whiz to explain it but maybe this is the source of your problem?

[Sugarmaker]

Guess you have to start double checking your sugar measuring tools and also if your R.O is working properly? I had a sap hydrometer that was 1 degree high.
I usually est about 50 gallons of sap to make a gallon of syrup. Our sap is generally about 2%.
Regards,
Chris