My new copper coil-just arrived !!

[TerryEspo]

Nice having a plumber friend.
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He brought me a real nice piece of soft copper, 5/8" I think he said, bigger than I could ever afford to buy, lol.
He said nice thick wall copper, used for underground water lines.
Approx. 40 ft, he gave me, I don't think I need that much but have it to use if needed. I am hoping the larger diameter copper hold more sap to warm up than the thinner copper I have used in the past. I understand I am not being efficient by not wrapping it around the stack but o.k. with that.

I want to avoid wrapping it around my stack and instead will offset it on my base for the stack. 13479

Any guess of how much copper I may need? I boil around 10-12 GPH, stack temp around 750* and hope to regulate my warm/hot sap at that rate.

I intend to weld/tack on a wind guard where to copper coil will be sitting. I also intend to have the last 3ft-4ft of copper run along top inside, the length of the pan before releasing into my pan. Not worried about a bit of condensation.

Is 40ft too much to use? I hope to hear I don't need 40ft.

[MaxJ]

I had a 3/8" line coiled around the stack and the previous owner used to burn the sap in the line, but said just let the black stuff run out into a pail. Well the line closed up after part of the first season, so last year I went and bought 25 ft of new tubing and it gets eaten up pretty quick going around the stack and really shorted myself in the run. So running the 40' around will just give it more time to preheat the sap. With what I have on the stack right now it just dribbles in and it doesn't have enough time to heat up the sap. BTW nice buddy. :)

[acerrubrum]

I just revamped my preheater using copper tubing around a 6" stack, the coil sits just a foot above the back of arch. Mine used about 20' of tubing and makes about 7-8 turns around the stack. I then wrapped the coil with 2 layers of 1" thick insulation and then fitted a 8" stack over it all. Tight fit but it works, and sheds rain water too. It takes my sap from 35 degrees to around 150, depending on how big the fire is.
I think 40' would be too much, and could burn the sap in the coils. I think insulating is the key.

[maplestudent]

If I understand correctly, I don't think Terry is planning to wrap it around the stack. May want to try using the entire 40 feet at first and see how that works......before cutting it.

MaxJ and acerrubrum.....what is the diameter of your tubing?

[TerryEspo]

Correct, not going to wrap it around the stack, been there before and don't like it. I should do a test boil (all 40 ft) I guess and that will answer all guessing I have.

Being low on dry wood and getting water to the arch will be a pain but probably best I do it.

My wife is going to love me dragging multiple 5 gallon jugs through the house !!:evil:

[MaxJ]

I just revamped my preheater using copper tubing around a 6" stack, the coil sits just a foot above the back of arch. Mine used about 20' of tubing and makes about 7-8 turns around the stack. I then wrapped the coil with 2 layers of 1" thick insulation and then fitted a 8" stack over it all. Tight fit but it works, and sheds rain water too. It takes my sap from 35 degrees to around 150, depending on how big the fire is.
I think 40' would be too much, and could burn the sap in the coils. I think insulating is the key.

So maybe that's why the longer run would get too hot, and your suggestion on insulating the stack is the trick.

maple student I'm running 3/8" off a 35 gallon tank on a raised stand 6' off the ground.

[acerrubrum]

I think my tubing is 1/4", and I use a 35 gallon feed tank that hangs about 4' above preheater.

[TerryEspo]

Bent and wired my copper coil into shape this morning.
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Really hoping enough heat comes from just sitting on top.

I need to grab a single piece of thin sheet metal for a wind guard, install stack pieces and give it a shot to see what temp my sap comes out at.

[wobbletop]

I personally don't think that's going to do anything. Sorry.

You can probably hold your hand within 6" of that stack without a problem, so I doubt it will warm up the sap at all.

[MaxJ]

Not sure if the coil will heat enough to make a big enough difference in the sap.

[TerryEspo]

I was hoping that once sides go around the coil and the steam in front hits the coil it would heat the sap.
Maybe a roof over the coil also will do it.
Fingers crossed.

[optionguru]

I don't think it's going to do much. I guess I don't understand why you don't wrap the stack. My old evaporator had the 6" stack wrapped and then a piece of 8" surrounding that. The sap got heated up to about 135. When I ran out of sap I would continue running water through it into a bucket to avoid burning the coil.

[maplestudent]

I currently have 15 feet of repurposed refrigerator copper line (I think it is 1/4", went from cold water supply to icemaker) around my stack. it is not tight to the stack though and really doesn't do much in the sense of heating the water. I can get up to about 10 GPH with my 4 steam table pans and with the value open all the way, it is not enough of a stream to keep up. I have continued to use it though for 2 reasons: 1) it's not enough to kill the boil (lessens it, but doesn't kill it) until I have to add more sap by hand to keep up and 2) I have so many other things to do it hasn't made it's way to the top of the priority list yet. it's getting close though.

With Terry's coil, I don't think it will warm much unless it is around the stack, and even then won't get the full effect of the heat unless it is wrapped as tight as possible to the stack and insulated.

[maplestudent]

Terry....I may have misunderstood.....are you thinking of enclosing the coil in a hood over the pan?

[Sinzibuckwud]

I hope you cleaned that pipe out real well, refrigerator lines are full of freon (until cut) and compressor oil, when heated, even trace amounts, creates a phosgene gas.
the oil is usually mineral based not toxic... but not great.

[TerryEspo]

Back to the drawing board.

I did a small boil today to clean my pan and test the copper coil. Not enough heat.

I surrender, not going that route, sap was not even warm coming out of the copper.

Not sure my next move, may even have to wrap it around the stack if I don't come up with another plan.

[Sinzibuckwud]

Back to the drawing board.

I did a small boil today to clean my pan and test the copper coil. Not enough heat.

I surrender, not going that route, sap was not even warm coming out of the copper.

Not sure my next move, may even have to wrap it around the stack if I don't come up with another plan.

Ring the pipe inside the boil pan in the sap and have it end above your preferred boil level with a downward bend. I have seen close to boiling sap come out of pipes this way and while you can still boil in the pipe, the chances of burning are slim and the fix to boiling in pipe is simply shortening how much is coiled in the pan.
hope it helps :)

[maplestudent]

I hope you cleaned that pipe out real well, refrigerator lines are full of freon (until cut) and compressor oil, when heated, even trace amounts, creates a phosgene gas.
the oil is usually mineral based not toxic... but not great.

it went from my cold water supply in the basement to the icemaker input on the fridge. I relocated the fridge and some of the plumbing, and got a new line, with the thought of using the old one for maple stuff. it wasn't part of the refrigerator itself

[Sinzibuckwud]

it went from my cold water supply in the basement to the icemaker input on the fridge. I relocated the fridge and some of the plumbing, and got a new line, with the thought of using the old one for maple stuff. it wasn't part of the refrigerator itself

That's great to hear
sorry if I came off rude, just concerned for a fellow.

[TerryEspo]

I did it, not really what I wanted but sap is coming and it should work for this season.

Great idea SINZI, but I batch boil and pull my pan each time.

Had to cut off about 10ft.-15ft. Was all crooked from me ruining it.
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