Effects of an extended period of early warm weather?

[jacob yoder]

I'm new to this site and have only been making syrup for 3 years. I've searched for the answer to my question with no luck, so sorry if this has been answered in the past. I know the basics of what makes the sap run and when it generally ends. But is a long warm spell early in the season a good thing or can it bring the season to an end long before it should? Our normal high/low temperature for northeast WI next week is about 35/18, but the last 5 days of the 10 day forecast call for highs in the mid to upper 50's and lows in the 40's. With the assumption that normal colder weather returns, how long can the warm spell last before it causes the sap to quit running completely? Thanks.

[SDdave]

Jacob,

From my own experience, stay in for the long haul if the temps are going to go back to optimal flow. Just watch the buds throughout the warm spell and during the returning cold snap. Last year we had a very warm spell for about a week and a half, buds broke, I got mad at a very short season and cleaned up for the year. Less than two weeks later cold spell came and froze the buds off & restarted syrup season. I had called it quits and that's when a lot of area guys made the most of the syrup.

The sap will quit running during the warm spell but if the optimal conditions return sap will flow.

SDdave

[jacob yoder]

Thanks SDdave.

I know about the buds and buddy sap. I just didn't know if it stayed warm for awhile very early in the season if the tree would "shut down" the sap flow until next spring. We don't normally see more than a few days in a row of 50's until April. I'll just be patient and take whatever comes.

[DrTimPerkins]

Our normal high/low temperature for northeast WI next week is about 35/18, but the last 5 days of the 10 day forecast call for highs in the mid to upper 50's and lows in the 40's. With the assumption that normal colder weather returns, how long can the warm spell last before it causes the sap to quit running completely? Thanks.

It would depend highly upon your spout and tubing sanitation practices. If you use new spouts, or installed new drops, or use CV, then you will probably be fine. Anytime there is warm weather, especially when it gets above 50 deg F, then microbes start to really proliferate in tapholes. By using EXCELLENT sanitation practices, you can delay this happening, and maintain good sap flows through warm spells better than if you don't. Cleaning of spouts/droplines can also help if you don't use replacement (new spouts, new drops, new CVs), however not quite as well as replacement. Realistically, not much you can do about it at this point, so wait and see and hope for the best.

[ash10383]

I wondered the same thing, here in NW OH the next week forecast has highs in the 60s, a day or two 65+...I tapped some at the end of Jan, would I do good to take any tubes / buckets in and wash them and then put them back out if / when favorable conditions come back (hopefully!)...hoping the weather guys really got this one messed up!

[jbelany]

Dr Tim, could you explain further the "excellent" sanitation? I too am new to this, I scrubbed everything last year before putting them away and placed them in plastic bags for storage. Being into home brewing beer, where sanitation is also the best thing you can do, I thought about washing my spouts in StarSan before hanging them. StarSan is the last line of sanitizing anything in my brewing process and is food safe. Thoughts?

Joe

[motowbrowne]

Dr Tim, could you explain further the "excellent" sanitation? I too am new to this, I scrubbed everything last year before putting them away and placed them in plastic bags for storage. Being into home brewing beer, where sanitation is also the best thing you can do, I thought about washing my spouts in StarSan before hanging them. StarSan is the last line of sanitizing anything in my brewing process and is food safe. Thoughts?

Joe

Hopefully Dr Tim will jump in if I'm wrong here, but I think pretty much everything he was talking about only applies to producers using tubing, especially vacuum systems. Us guys hanging buckets can have clean taps to start with, but since the tap holes are basically exposed to air, there's not much we can do to limit bacteria exposure once the tap is in.

The answer to your question in my experience is that it can go either way. If the temps go back to normal relatively quickly after a warm spell, usually there'll still be sap to be had. It's hard to know, but I generally figure that a spell like they're forecasting contributes to the season ending sooner than it otherwise would have, but generally not an immediate end.

[DoubleBrookMaple]

That warm weather of yours will be coming east and my forecast shows at least a week straight of above freezing temps, with one day like yours at over 60...
This has been a very warm winter, and the NWS "Climate Prediction Center" has called it all along, and it is expected to continue through summer. In particular, your Wisconsin, (and the whole Great Lakes Region) is at the heart of the 8-14 day high probability, at 90% chance of above normal temps.
This map shows it.....
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/814temp.new.gif
Beyond the 8-14 day, the warm weather probability continues, and is highest in the central north (northern MN and WI).
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/30day/
I bit scary in my mind, and glad I tapped early.


AND, JUST TO CONFIRM ALL THIS....
Punxsutawny Phil did NOT see his shadow this year!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zioQMpSjtyg
13449

[DrTimPerkins]

Hopefully Dr Tim will jump in if I'm wrong here, but I think pretty much everything he was talking about only applies to producers using tubing, especially vacuum systems. Us guys hanging buckets can have clean taps to start with, but since the tap holes are basically exposed to air, there's not much we can do to limit bacteria exposure once the tap is in.

The answer to your question in my experience is that it can go either way. If the temps go back to normal relatively quickly after a warm spell, usually there'll still be sap to be had. It's hard to know, but I generally figure that a spell like they're forecasting contributes to the season ending sooner than it otherwise would have, but generally not an immediate end.

Yes, you are correct. I was generally speaking about spouts on tubing. For bucket spouts though, the same thing applies (the cleaner the better), however there is little you can do to prevent taphole drying from starting due to the exposure of the taphole to air -- which brings in microbes.

Simplest way is to clean them well, rinse them in a dilute Clorox solution, then rinse again. Never soak metal spouts in Clorox for very long though.

The other factor for spouts/buckets is to tap as close to the start of the season as possible. Of course the weather this year has made knowing when the season is starting rather difficult.

About the only thing you can do now is wait and see. Don't be too hasty to call it quits. Sometimes a good cold snap after a warm spell will bring things back some.

[jacob yoder]

Thanks to everyone for your responses!

Up til about 4 years ago, I would have never thought there was such a thing as the weather being too warm in the spring! I've lived in WI my whole life and hate the cold more with every passing year. This new "addiction" really gives me a reason to look forward to the weather that previously was too warm for winter activities but way too cold for the things I really like to do.

I only have about 25 taps with buckets, so for me it wouldn't be a big deal to put a few more taps in if and when it gets cold again if necessary. The biggest reason I posted my original question is that I do have the option to tap some more trees ahead of the warm weather. But because of my work schedule, I'd prefer to collect a smaller amount over a month or so as opposed to gathering a lot all at once.

DoubleBrookMaple:Next year I'll have to pay more attention to Punxsutawny Phil. I usually only see him when Bill Murray keeps seeing him day after day after day!

[jmayerl]

Jacob-
Here is my take on things(we're only probably 15 miles apart). I think the warm spell may end the season here if it lasts 5+ days in the 50-60's as predicted. So far this is the warmest winter I can ever remember. Most all woods have little snow and zero frost. This is shaping up to look like 2012 when it went right from cold to 70 in a week and most people made little syrup. We finished that year on St Patrick day. This year many people I know tapped in 3 weeks ago and we took advantage of a quick 3 day run the first week of February, and again had a great run last fri-sat. If the buds pop were done....I will keep my fingers crossed that it just doesn't get as warm as they think.

[jacob yoder]

Yeah, everything I've seen suggests it will be warm for a while. I originally asked the question thinking that it would only be warm for a few days to a week. One of the maps I saw put us in the very much above normal area for the next few months. 2013 was my first year tapping, so I missed that short season in '12. I've noticed that weathermen are wrong every now and then though.

[wbreitbarth]

The weather forecast in southern MN does not look good. Last year we had the same thing for 2 weeks it was in the 40's and 50's and I didn't think I was going to see anymore then a few gallons of sap. After the 2nd week I was ready to pull my taps and be done since the buds were open. I left them a few more days and it snowed 10+ inch's and dipped to 34 degrees and I collected over 100 gallons in 2 days on 18 taps. My last cook was the 15th of March last year. I would suggest leaving them as long as possible and just keep an eye on the clarity of the sap.

[Russell Lampron]

The weather forecast in southern MN does not look good. Last year we had the same thing for 2 weeks it was in the 40's and 50's and I didn't think I was going to see anymore then a few gallons of sap. After the 2nd week I was ready to pull my taps and be done since the buds were open. I left them a few more days and it snowed 10+ inch's and dipped to 34 degrees and I collected over 100 gallons in 2 days on 18 taps. My last cook was the 15th of March last year. I would suggest leaving them as long as possible and just keep an eye on the clarity of the sap.

Last year I only boiled 4 times in March which is my record for the worst March ever. It beat 2014 where I only boiled 5 times in March. For both of those seasons I made all of my syrup in April with last season being my 3rd best out of 15. I normally make my syrup in the month of March. If the weather goes as predicted this year it is going to be February.

[jacob yoder]

The weather forecast in southern MN does not look good. Last year we had the same thing for 2 weeks it was in the 40's and 50's and I didn't think I was going to see anymore then a few gallons of sap. After the 2nd week I was ready to pull my taps and be done since the buds were open. I left them a few more days and it snowed 10+ inch's and dipped to 34 degrees and I collected over 100 gallons in 2 days on 18 taps. My last cook was the 15th of March last year. I would suggest leaving them as long as possible and just keep an eye on the clarity of the sap.

This is exactly what I was asking about. I didn't know if it could stay above freezing for that long, then run again later.
I definitely will just leave them in and see what happens. Thanks to everyone who chimed in.