Patrick Phaneuf.... What to expect

[Bricklayer]

I've ordered a 2x5 continuous flow flat pan ($850) with float box ($250) pan comes with 1" draw off with ball valve included and does not come with thermometer but has 1/4 npt fitting welded in. I also ordered a stainless steel 28 gauge cover for the pan to cover it when not boiling. It also comes with a warming pan like the half pints. I have tried warming pans in the past and have not had good luck with them so I figured I would use the warming pan for filtering and canning. I do small batchs so I really don't have to worry about using a heated filter canner because the syrup is right off the evaporator filtered then into cans or bottles right away. Usually stays about 190-195.
I've had regular contact with Patrick through text and he always answered my questions right away. I did as much searching on this site and sugarbush.info as I could and what ever picture or post that I could read I read it. After reading everything I fully understood that I would wait forever for him to deliver it and not be able to get a hold of him for long periods of time. I accepted that as long as I got what I ordered in time for this years season. Could care less if I got it the first day I boiled. As long as it was in my shack.
I was just wondering what in terms of quality of materials and workmanship I can expect from Patrick. In all my post reading I have never heard a bad thing about any of his pans or welds or float boxes being nothing but great quality. He has been at it a while and judging by the posts on this site and others he has pans and evaporators in sugar shacks from Quebec all the way to Ohio. So that tells you something right there.
I flirted with the idea of just biting the bullet and getting a smoky lake pan. There is way more info and pictures out there of their products. But I did the good Canadian thing and supported a Canadian company and a big name in the maple syrup business. Also the Canadian dollar is very weak so that was a big factor. Did I do the right thing? I hope so
I will post my full experience in a separate post when my dealings are complete with Patrick. ( so far my experience has been great) I would just like to hear how you guys out there with Phaneuf pans and evaporators like your experience and how the quality matched up to other manufactures out there.
This is my first real plunge into spending big money on equipment and after always standing in front of the evaporators and pans in the showrooms at the dealers I'm finally gonna have one of my own. Even if it is just a 2x5 flat pan. It's a massive upgrade to my little operation and will hopefully last me a lifetime or be passed on to others when or if I upgrade to bigger.
Thanks and look forward to the replies.

[Sugarmaker]

Congratulations on ordering a new evaporator!
I had to read this a couple times. Looks like you did your home work.
Does he have these units in stock? Our season is well under way. I would be concerned about timing getting it and getting it set up?
I have heard his quality is very good. Hopefully the customer service and the delivery will be just as good too.
Maybe Crawflyer will chime in? I know he had custom pans built for his arch.
Regards,
Chris

[rayi]

You will never hear any thing bad about Patrick's work. It's top notch. Patrick is a vary nice man. There was a time that he was real late delivering but he is just late. It will be worth the wait

[marlmucker]

I ordered a 2x4 pro deluxe in 2014. Everything you've read is true and accurate, great work, high quality and he is not quick. He is making me a pre-heater and sap warmer right now. He told me mid-March delivery, but I'm not holding my breath. You won't be disappointed.

[MISugarDaddy]

I got my first evaporator from Patrick back in 2007. Four years later I had him make me a drop flue pan to replace the original flat pan. I had good experiences with him both times. I had read reviews of his work and timeliness, so I ordered both times after the syrup season so I had all summer to get the items. I was very pleased with his work both times. You won't be sorry that you hired him to make you your pans.
Gary

[cncaboose]

His metalwork and welding are absolute tops. My evaporator and canner have a couple of design issues that I hope he has fixed 10 years later.

[cbhansen]

I have a Phaneuf 2 x 6. A work of art. Beautiful welds. He essentially a one man show so can be a "little" in getting things delivered. I knew this ahead of time and I took this into account. You'll be happy with your new equipment.

[Z/MAN]

I have a Patrick 2x3 pan and the craftsmanship is as good as it gets. I also received mine in the time he told me it would take. I heard a lot of complaints after I got mine but haven't heard any bad things in a year or two.

[eustis22]

about the only thing I might pick at is my hole for a thermocouple is above the level I am boiling at. it should be as low or lower then my drain hole.

[Z/MAN]

about the only thing I might pick at is my hole for a thermocouple is above the level I am boiling at. it should be as low or lower then my drain hole.
The mount is angled down. I use a 12" long stem thermometer in mine and it sits just right in the boil.

[Bricklayer]

I received my pan from Patrick. I've got a couple questions. The draw off is 1 1/4". And so is the inlet from the float box. I wasn't expecting it to be that large. My thermometer is 2" from the bottom welded straight. So basically the thermometer sits at 2" from bottom of pan. I've heard of people bending the fitting. But I tried that and it pulls the side of the pan in. If the thermometer is sitting at 2" does that mean I have to run over 2" to be accurate and if I go lower then 1.5" is basically as low as I can go because of the draw off. I've never had a continuous flow pan so this is new to me.

[eustis22]

>The mount is angled down. I use a 12" long stem thermometer in mine and it sits just right in the boil.

Huh, z/man..my original thermocouple was one of the curved ones....I'll pick up a straight stem and try that. Thank you

[Sugarmaker]

Dang now that's good service! Order it one day and get it the next! Awesome! Have fun with the new shiny toy!
Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

I received my pan from Patrick. I've got a couple questions. The draw off is 1 1/4". And so is the inlet from the float box. I wasn't expecting it to be that large. My thermometer is 2" from the bottom welded straight. So basically the thermometer sits at 2" from bottom of pan. I've heard of people bending the fitting. But I tried that and it pulls the side of the pan in. If the thermometer is sitting at 2" does that mean I have to run over 2" to be accurate and if I go lower then 1.5" is basically as low as I can go because of the draw off. I've never had a continuous flow pan so this is new to me.

That doesn't sound right if the thermo port is 2 inches off the bottom? Pictures? Call him? Not sure why the draw off ports are so large? They will work. On that size rig 3/4 would be adequate I believe.
Regards,
Chris

[Bricklayer]

I'm just waiting for my float box. He is shipping it to me. Hopefully today and if I get it by the weekend I'll be happy. I was a little confused why he put 1 1/4" draw off on it. But if it works then I'm happy. Will I need to stay above the draw off with the level of sap? I might try to come up with a way to reduce at least the ball valve to 3/4" If I open it once that's a lot of Syrup I'd need to draw off. The thermometer is welded 90 degrees at 2" not on an angle. I contacted Patrick and was told to bend it. I will try that tonight. Also with the float inlet being 1 1/4" does my level have to be above that. To top of the inlet I have 1 1/2" from bottom of pan. It was my reason of buying the float box. To be able to keep a steady low level of sap. Hope I can achieve this.

[eustis22]

on my 2X3 I boil an inch and that comes to 1/2 way up the drawoff porthole. I like this because it gives me a way to eyeball depth. The drawoffs have been fine at that height so I see no need to deepen the level past the hole.

[Bricklayer]

So if I grabbed some reducers and a smaller ball valve I should be ok running 1" depth? I am going to try and adjust the thermometer tonight

[michiganphil]

No, you don't have to be deeper than the draw off port. It won't hurt to run it at 1", just don't open the valve fully when you draw. Open the valve slowly until your drawing a steady stream of syrup. If you go wide open and make long draws, you could drain the final section of your pan before the float can react and replace the exiting syrup.

For the Thermo, I think he means to bend the probe on the thermometer. You will never be able to bend the coupling in the pan without buckling the side.

[eustis22]

but if you bend the probe doesn't that screw with the electronics?

[Big_Eddy]

. The thermometer is welded 90 degrees at 2" not on an angle. I contacted Patrick and was told to bend it. I will try that tonight.

Bend what?

Don't try to bend the port - you'll crink your pan side.
You can't bend the stem on a dial thermometer (at least not that I know of)
You may be able to bend the stem on an electronic probe - but if you do - how do you remove it after?

Doesn't sound right to me

[Big_Eddy]

So if I grabbed some reducers and a smaller ball valve I should be ok running 1" depth? I am going to try and adjust the thermometer tonight
You're better off with a full size valve. Just don't open it fully.
Reducers effectively lift the bottom of your valve up 1/4" which doesn't help when running shallow.

[Bricklayer]

He said to bend the fitting that's welded to the pan so it's 1/4" off the bottom.
Basically impossible to do without warping the side of the pan. I just wiggled it yesterday and the draw off port right next to it started to tilt upwards. Just got the pan. Last thing I want to do is bend the whole side of it.
Can't bend a dial thermometer. It will not function if bent
I'm sure it's possible to bend a digital probe but I went out and bought a brand new dial therm from CDL. Is there special fittings for a digital thermometer probe to fit in 1/4" npt?
I guess it's not the end of the world if I gave to go without a thermometer. I would rather not have one then bend my pan all to hell. Will be kinda hard to run a continuous flow pan without a thermometer though.

[eustis22]

there are stem thermometers you can clip to the side and ignore the thermoport. don;t bend anything.

Suspend a thermocouple into your sap off the bottom and away from the sides. you'll be fine

[Bricklayer]

Where can I get a clip on thermocouple? I've looked on all major maple dealers websites.
Paid $60 for a dial thermometer and now it's useless.
I just don't understand why my thermoport is so high. Why should I be expected to bend a brand new pan. Doesn't make sense to me.
Every pan I have seen in my life it's been on an angle. Never seen it straight on that high up. Weird
Anybody else ever had this problem?

[lpakiz]

I understand you cannot bend a mechanical dial thermometer because the "drive shaft"" goes from the bottom of the tip up to the dial.
You can bend a thermocouple probe, because only the bottom 1/4 inch or so is the sensor. In this case, I would suggest a compression type fitting, and make the bend inside the pan, nearer the tip. To remove it, you would have to remove the ferrule nut and withdraw the nut, ferrule and the probe. Don't make the bend to severe, or the probe won't fit thru the fitting body. Plastic fittings are available for this, and the whole fitting unscrews from the pan and comes out with the probe.

[Bricklayer]

does anybody know where I can get this fitting? Closest I've come is a home brew online store. But it's 1/2" npt.

[TheMapleMoose]

Auberins.com they have a wide range of probes and fittings to attach them into a port. Honestly you would also be fine to buy one of those digital kitchen thermometers that come with the clip for the side of a pot, and rob the clip to hang the probe in from above. That's how I mount the probes on our evaporator. If they need to be relocated or cleaned its a piece of cake to move. I do use a compression fitting above the clamp to help keep it from slipping down and giving a false reading from touching the bottom of the pan. Good luck

[Bricklayer]

What type or kind of digital thermometer should I get? I'm assuming they are probley only good for a year. I find that with the ones I get for my smoker.

[Bricklayer]

Auberins is a great website. They even have schematics with a material list for an auto draw off. If I can get it shipped quick enough I might buy one of their digital thermometers. They have a wireless one. And most have a buzzer also. They look pretty good quality and are made for commercial use.
Same price I paid for my dial thermometer. Go figure.

[TheMapleMoose]

We use their thermometer set ups in the kitchen because we can compensate for barometric pressure, and change the alarm settings depending on what we are making.

Get one with an RTD sensor probe so you can get the temp readout in tenths of a degree

[PeddlerLakeSapper]

Just got this one from McMaster Carr. Easy to read, 3' of lead on the probe. Just laid the probe in the bottom of the pan.
13468

[treehugger]

I have a 2x8 raised flue from Patrick. this is the 3rd season with it. Boils great get over 70 gal/hour when firing on all 8. Great work, details are amazing and the entire thing is stainless, even the airtight door. Thinking of selling it because I'm probably going to oil. Just don't want to part with it because is so nice. But I have no time anymore for wood splitting, etc..

[Bricklayer]

my pan has a 3/4" lip all the way around the outside of it. Not sure if I can get one of those pot clips to work. Gonna try tonight. The RTD probes. Can they be bent? Auberins sells the compression fitting and probes. I would just need to bend the probe to get into the syrup if I can't get the clip to work. I would love to be able to get the tip of the probe within 1/2" of the draw off port if possible. I'm going to a Brewers supply store tonight to see what they got for fittings and thermometers. Hopefully they have something. Looks like our season is going to be starting up Sunday so I doubt I would get anything from auberins in time. They say up to 2 weeks for anything in Canada.

[Bricklayer]

Brewers supply store didn't stock any fittings or thermometers. Gonna have to jimmy rig something for this year. Patrick told me again to bend it. He said it will kink the side of the pan a bit. Really? Brand new pan with a big kink in the side of it. That's gonna be nice to show everyone that comes by.
I thought I would be out staring at this thing in awe when I got it. Don't even want to look at it now. Makes me mad. I've got to jimmy rig a brand new pan.
And hopefully I get my float box. Hopefully that works at least. My confidence in that is about 0%
The inlet he welded for the float box has 1 1/4" pipe with a fitting on the end that is threaded. It's a little bigger then 1 1/4 " it looks like. I'm going to have to find a cap for this just in case I don't get my float.

[eustis22]

>Brewers supply store didn't stock any fittings or thermometers.

I should think stainless steel compression fittings can be picked up fairly cheaply on the web.

>Patrick told me again to bend it.

Yeah, I wouldn't do that.

>I've got to jimmy rig a brand new pan.

Not at all. For now, go to a store like Target or Bed Bath and Beyond and pick up a candy thermometer.....digital is easier to read because you can keep it out of the steam. What I do is suspend a thin piece of wood across the channel dividers, then clothespin the probe so it's suspended in the syrup channel close to the outlet. You'll be at least able to draw when you're close enough and do your finishing elsewhere. Get reccs on the BEST thermometer you can find if you're not going to use the hydrometer to test on the stove (I don't cause I break those things like twigs and near all that metal and stone?? No way).

>just laid the probe in the bottom of the pan.

The pan will always be hotter than the syrup so unless you know exactly how much hotter, this will give misleading readings, I should think.

[PeddlerLakeSapper]

>just laid the probe in the bottom of the pan.

The pan will always be hotter than the syrup so unless you know exactly how much hotter, this will give misleading readings, I should think.

Does not matter if you are using a hydrometer.

[Bricklayer]

I use a hydrometer. Actually bought a hydrotherm last year and love it. Usually use both to make sure. I usually draw off at 104.5 C. Yes I use Celsius. Then check with hydrometer. Finish on small propane finisher pan. 16x16. The piece of steel to suspend the probe is a good idea. Gonna try that one. I will let you guys know what I come up with. I'm really hoping that he sends my float box. Will just be one more thing I gotta work around if not.
Thanks

[brass maple]

Bricklayer. I use a thermocouple on my rig. I bent mine in a slight "s" pattern to make it to a 1/2" off the bottom. I has a gradual bend to it and it works just fine. Checked it against other thermometers and is still accurate

[lpakiz]

The fitting you need is called a compression fitting, and others call them a ferrule fitting. One end is 1/4 NPT male. Take your probe with you when you go to buy the fitting, to make sure you get the right diameter to match your probe diameter.
Then, don't use the metal ferrule. Rather, replace it with an O ring. When you want to remove it, loosen the outer nut which relieves tension on the ORING and probe, then unscrew the whole fitting, swiveling the fitting around the shaft of the probe. Most auto-draws will come with a plastic version of this fitting. Maple dealers will have this plastic fitting, but a brass one will work, as it doesn't really touch the syrup.
You certainly would not want to bend the pan for 2 reasons:
1. You do not want to wrinkle even a used pan, much less a brand new one.
2. He used the wrong half-coupling. There are straight ends, and angled ends. Patrick should admit this and somehow make it right. I suspect hired help screwed up, and Patrick is trying to wriggle out of his responsibility by telling you to bend the sidewall of the pan.
I bent mine 90* but I used a special tubing bender so I didn't kink it. If you have a friend in the auto repair business, he might have one to borrow you for a pint of syrup. New, they are like $30-35

[mudr]

I didn't know if phaneuf was still making evaporators, it's tough to know because he doesn't have a website that I know of. How do you contact him? Will he ship to new york, close to buffalo? I'd expect with the exchange rate prices would be very nice, any idea what 2x6 full setup cost?

[Nemo5]

He has a Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/maplesyrupevaporator/

[eustis22]

brass would you mind putting up a pic of your bent thermouple?

My fitting does not "slope down"

[Bricklayer]

Was able to find brass fittings to work with my probe. I bought a new Taylor digital thermometer. I usually use the same one to finish my syrup so I trust it's accurate. I couldn't find O rings small enough for the 1/8" probe. So I used the one that came with it. Copper I think. Seems to get a nice seal. When I get my float box ( hope to Christ this weekend) I will test it out.

[brass maple]

Bricklayer. What you did is very close to what I did. I haven't taken my pan down yet will be close to the end of next week before I will get it set up again. This very rough sketch shows what I did. I put more of an "s" bend in it because the sensing area of the probe Is about an inch from the end. The s bend gets the probe well under sap.13571
sorry sketch is rough.if need be I can still remove it. Was in a rush mounting it and didn't have the o rings and just squeezed high temp silicone into connector. Works very well.

[Nemo5]

Met Patrick in Edmunston tonight to pick up my new 2 x 3. It is very nice.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160307/8a579ccd9574955234df5d871e420027.jpg

[Bricklayer]

I was talking to him yesterday and he said he was headed to New Brunswick. I can tell by the picture that your thermoport is on an angle. That's good.
I still have no float box. Still has not been shipped. He said Monday its getting shipped. I will believe it when I see it

[bstewar]

I'm still waiting for a thermometer and drawoff spout that he forgot to include when I met him in VT to pick up my 2x6 drop flue. That was a few months ago. At least he responds quick and he certainly makes really nice equipment.

[Harken]

Marlmucker, how do you like your 2x4 from Phaneuf ? I'm thinking of ordering one. Evaporation rate ?? Did you buy his arch or did you build one ? Thanks for the info.

Ken

[Bricklayer]

My take on his equipment is. You get what you pay for. His "hobby" pans are made and priced for the hobbiest. I purchased the 2x5 with a float box this year. As you've read in this post the thermometer was welded straight and was more then 2 1/2" above the bottom of pan. Finally got the float box about 2 days before my first boil. Installed it and the connections to the pan didn't line up and the hooks weren't welded in the right spot. Had to jimmy rig it like everything else. And float box components were cheaply made also. Just a threaded rod with a little nut welded on it. It is very loose and I would constantly have to adjust it. The hinge on the float was so loose that the float wandered to the side of box constantly and I had to replace it. Very frustrating and disappointing. I'm probley going to get these things repaired and sell it. Would not sell it with broken parts to a fellow sugarer. If your just getting a simple pan without anything special then go for it. If your getting an evaporator and a fancy larger rig then he will probley do a great job and you will be happy. I'm going to go with a brand name company next time. You get what you pay for.

[Three Maples]

I am late on this post but we had a very busy season. I have been running Patrick's pans on my 3 1/2' X 9' arch 5years and I am very happy. He does wonderful work and was right on time for me. I have the reverse piping on a raised flue. I had to modify the thermo ports. What I did was to take a 1/4 in plug and drill it at an angle so the thermometer slides in the fitting when the fitting is screwed in the port. The thermometer sits just off the bottom of the pan and can be removed for cleaning or calibration without any loss of sweet. The thermometer just sits in the fitting not screwed in, has worked great for years. If I think there is a problem with the thermometer I can just slide both out and switch them.

[deckers007]

14389

Just got my new 2x6 Patrick Phaneuf raised flue pans last week, workmanship is outstanding. He was great to deal with, and delivered as promised. There where 2 valves for the float boxes that where missing which he will be shipping in the next week.

He said the thermometer port is set up for a 12" stem thermometer, no since the syrup pan is reversible( by rotating 180 degrees) do i just move the thermometer every time? and plug the port not in use? or do some install 2 thermometers?



Will have lots of learning to do as i am going from steam pans to a raised flue setup. planing for a test boil this fall as i have a few mods to make on my homemade arch.