Sweetening pan ? HELP !

[newmod]

WE had a good run on Saturday 275 gal, sunday 150. Boiled on sunday. IT TOOK FOREVER BEFORE I DREW OFF!! I have a 2x5 hybrid, AUF with preheater and was running it kind of deep around 2 inches (my first year with pan). We boiled approx. 280 (includes what is still in pan) before we drew off a gallon so far. Is this normal? how often should a draw off be and roughly how much each time? ALSO. when I put more wood in the fire box, the rear flue pan really foams up. Is this normal?? Besides all of the questions, the hybrid worked awesome. Glad my float box got here before I started boiling.

[GramaCindy]

Yes, it's very normal to take forever and ever to sweeten your pans. As far as how long before another draw off, things will greatly speed up now that the pan is sweetened. I cannot answer the foam question for you, as I'm waiting on my new 2x5 dropped flue pan.

[Big_Eddy]

Sounds about right. You are running a bit deeper than many folks (safety is good!!) so it will take correspondingly longer to sweeten. Now that you have the pans sweetened, as long as you don't drain them you should be drawing off 3 or 4 quarts of syrup an hour. (assuming 30GPH or so) If you ran a bit shallower, your draws would be smaller and more frequent, but essentially the same syrup output per hour. The difference between evaporation rates at 1 1/2" and 2" is not enough to be worried about until you get a good feel for your new rig.

Are you using any defoamer? Typically you would add a small amount of defoamer to your first section every one or two firings. Foaming is normal with a high surface area flue pan.

[newmod]

Sounds about right. You are running a bit deeper than many folks (safety is good!!) so it will take correspondingly longer to sweeten. Now that you have the pans sweetened, as long as you don't drain them you should be drawing off 3 or 4 quarts of syrup an hour. (assuming 30GPH or so) If you ran a bit shallower, your draws would be smaller and more frequent, but essentially the same syrup output per hour. The difference between evaporation rates at 1 1/2" and 2" is not enough to be worried about until you get a good feel for your new rig.

Are you using any defoamer? Typically you would add a small amount of defoamer to your first section every one or two firings. Foaming is normal with a high surface area flue pan.

Big Eddy, I have not used "defoamer" . Is there anything else I could use besides defoamer? I haven't picked up any yet? Another question. How does a "hood" help with the evaporation process? I don't have one and not sure I will ever. Just curious how it works.

[Big_Eddy]

You can use almost any cooking oil as a defoamer. Be cautious of allergens if you sell your syrup. I've used canola oil in a restaurant style vinegar bottle - a few drops each firing.

A hood contains the steam and funnels it upwards and out of your sugar house so you can see your hand in front of your face. It doesn't increase the evaporation rate per se - but if you have a pre-heater, it concentrates the steam (and heat) around the pre-heater, substantially increasing the heat transfer to the incoming sap thereby increasing the temperature of the sap entering the pan which does help the overall evaporation rate.

[newmod]

You can use almost any cooking oil as a defoamer. Be cautious of allergens if you sell your syrup. I've used canola oil in a restaurant style vinegar bottle - a few drops each firing.

A hood contains the steam and funnels it upwards and out of your sugar house so you can see your hand in front of your face. It doesn't increase the evaporation rate per se - but if you have a pre-heater, it concentrates the steam (and heat) around the pre-heater, substantially increasing the heat transfer to the incoming sap thereby increasing the temperature of the sap entering the pan which does help the overall evaporation rate.

Great, thanks Big Eddy

[GramaCindy]

I have used in the past Organic Sunflower oil for defoamer.

[newmod]

I have used in the past Organic Sunflower oil for defoamer.

We did use VERY, VERY small amount of coconut oil, and it knocked down the foam fairly quick. I wasn't sure what products I could use besides defoamer.

[KevinS]

we usually use unsalted butter for defoamer. but i have also used canola oil

[mellondome]

If you sell syrup do not use dairy products or meat fats.. if for your own consumption... what ever you want.
Part of your foaming issue is also how deep you are running your back pan. The beeper the syrup, the higher it will have to rise to release the bubble. Which in turn means that there are more bubbles in the pan at a time, elevating it even further.

[DaveB]

FWIW, I have a calculator on my site and my android app that calculates how much sap it takes to sweeten the pans. I used numbers that someone here provided at some point.

http://realmaplesyrup.com/site/sap_calculator/

Using your numbers, it calculated that you'd need 250 gallons to sweeten the pans with 2.15% sap.

[Michael Greer]

It always amazes me on that first day. You can boil through a couple hundred gallons of sap and never get to the first draw-off. After that first day, your production will normalize, and at the other end of the season, you'll make syrup of all that remains in both pans.
At the end of the season, do a little math and find out what sort of ratios you have. How many gallons of sap per tap; How may gallons of syrup from how many gallons of sap; And heck, how much wood went into each gallon of finished product. These numbers will help you track your progress over the subsequent years, and give you something to consider when planning any upgrades.