Tree Selection / Production of Sap in Bush vs Open Feild Fencerow

[JDP]

Background info......

We have a large woodlot of sugar maples. My deer stand sits in the bush amongst all these beauties and I look at them each fall thinking we should tap them. We have so far only tapped trees in our fence lines because they get sun all day long and we thought they would produce the most sap.

After reading a bunch of posts, I am wondering if we are missing out on some really good trees. The deer stand sits in a swampy area that floods out in the fall and generally has water until sometime in May or June when it starts to dry up. It is only 6 - 8 inches deep and my quad and rubber hunting boots eliminate this obstacle. Im thinking this water supply my in fact yield greater amounts of sap???

Question is:

Are trees in this watery full bush as likely to produce as much sap as the fence line trees? The sun gets shaded out on many of them the further to the north side of the bush they are.

Or will they produce just as well, but just take longer to thaw??

Any knowledge on this is appreciated?

I think we will put a few taps in to "Test the (sweet) Water" this year!


JDP

[jimsudz]

Don't believe these are sugar maples. Sugar don't like standing water.

[JDP]

I assume they are sugars. Leaf looks like a sugar. They were yellow in the fall. And all we have anywhere else on the property are sugars??

The standing water is present late in the fall (deer hunting season....Nov.) and it is usually there til May / June. Most trees are somewhat raised from the water that sits between them. Lots of deadfall each year but many strong ones have got to a good size. Tree stand set in amongst 4 of them.

[Mini_Maple_Men]

Odds are these are red maples as they love the water. The more shaded and farther north facing the bush is the slower it wakes up, that being said it also produces longer than full sun or southern bushes. I tapped a bunch of reds and there syrup is great, if you have a nice steep incline run some 3/16 line and that helps them give a lot more and consistant sap flows. Lee

[JDP]

Definitely not REDS.

Will contact my buddy @ Mountsberg Hills Nursery for the ID of these trees. He's an expert on the subject.

[Mini_Maple_Men]

Sugars, reds, norways, or silvers, doesn't matter, they all bleed sweet sweet goodness, tap em all and get ready to boil! Good luck with your season! Lee

[Shirlsaw63]

I agree with Mini_Maple_Men - tap them all. All trees need sap to live - so they will have sap enough to tap no matter the location. It doesn't mean all will have the same level of flow everyday though. I have mostly box elders and the trees that are on a fence line that typically have standing water this time of year are great producers. If you don't mind working in the damp ground go for it.

[JDP]

One more question on SAP production....

With temps above freezing here tonight in southern Ontario, will the SAP run / continue to flow overnight and continue until the next freeze tomorrow night?

[bigschuss]

They sure don't sound like sugar maples, but tap them. You've got nothing to lose.

[Sugarmaker]

Not a good time to check but on the leaf of a red it will have a continuous saw tooth edge. The sugar and black maples will not have the saw tooth edge. Bark will be different on mature 100 + year old trees. Sugars will have large almost shaggy plates Reds will have tight very small plates
Regards,
Chris

[GeneralStark]

I'm betting on Silver Maples... Interesting that in floods in the Fall and then subsides in the Spring. If the roots of the trees you are referring are literally submerged in water for more than half the year, there is no way they are sugar maples and thriving.

Silver Maples do turn yellow in fall, unlike reds.

[blissville maples]

sugars have 5 point leaves reds have 3 main points, silvers are very jagged and seem to be more of a v shape between points

[BnSmaple]

Immature sugar maples will tolerate semi wet areas but as they age they will decline. As others have said if its a maple tap it they make awesome syrup. Mature red maple bark can get shaggy as well best way to tell is by the buds sharp to the touch are sugar maples but then again its hard to reach a bud of a mature maple

[Run Forest Run!]

One more question on SAP production....

With temps above freezing here tonight in southern Ontario, will the SAP run / continue to flow overnight and continue until the next freeze tomorrow night?

JDP, in southern Ontario during the 2012 tapping season we had nothing but above freezing temperatures all day and all night the entire time. While the collection period was barely two weeks long that year (:cry:), the sap ran, and ran, and ran........ without any below freezing temperatures to "recharge" the trees. I'm betting you'll see sap in the buckets tomorrow morning.

[bigschuss]

Mature red maple bark can get shaggy as well best way to tell is by the buds sharp to the touch are sugar maples but then again its hard to reach a bud of a mature maple

I agree. I'm guessing there are regional variations in the phenotypes of maples across their geographic range. Here in my neck of the woods I have mature reds and sugars growing side by side that are indistinguishable from each other. Some reds turn yellow in the fall, and some sugars turn reddish orange.

The easiest way for me to tell the difference this time of year is by the end buds. Fairly obvious and plump dark end buds = red maple.

These sound like silver maples to me. The OP mentioned lots of damaged limbs on the ground each year. Again, around here, that's fairly typical of silvers.

[JDP]

Judging by the response I am thinking Silver Maples, but I will await the definitive judgment by my friend down the road at the nursery!

I will advise ASAP.

Thanks all for the info!

JDP

[Run Forest Run!]

Hey JDP, the silvers that I tap on my property average between 2.5 and 3.5% sugar all season long. My best silver gave me 4 - 4.75% last year for the entire time. I can easily get 5L per tap during the height of the run and they've never budded out on me yet. Silver syrup is delicious on its own and fabulous if blended with sugar maple. Either way, tap those trees!

[Russell Lampron]

I'm assuming that the area is basically flat for the trees to be standing in water. If so create some artificial slope and tap them with 5/16" tubing to get the sap out to a place where you can put a tank. Tapping with 3/16" tubing requires good slope to get the natural vacuum.

[maple flats]

I'm guessing silvers too. They grow mostly in wetter areas, much more that Reds and I've never seen sugars growing in any areas that have standing water for that long. Of those 3, sugars are the only ones to have buds this time of year that come to a sharp point (before the buds open).

[mi-maple]

I have a stand of probably 40 or so sugars that are in some low ground. They are all being hollowed out from one side. They still tap well on the other sides but not sure how long they will last.

[Russell Lampron]

I have a stand of probably 40 or so sugars that are in some low ground. They are all being hollowed out from one side. They still tap well on the other sides but not sure how long they will last.

I've seen a lot of old sugar maples that were hollow on one side that had been that way for many years and still live on. I have one on my property that looks like it was struck by lightning. It is hollowed out on one side from the ground straight up for 25' or so. I have been putting a tap in it each year for 15 seasons.