What to do is a new hole is 1" above last years hole?

[Weekend_Warrior]

While tapping today, I found what I thought was last year’s hole. So, I move over and up and put in a new hole only to realize that my new hole is about a 1" above last year’s hole. Apparently, I found the year before last year’s hole. What should I do? Thanks.

[psparr]

Is it white wood? If so, leave it. If it was "dark meat" you could drill another.

[ennismaple]

On gravity - leave it. On vacuum - cap off the spile and abandon the tap for this season.

[lpakiz]

Drill another hole in the correct spot. You didn't ruin any more wood than was already ruined.
If you have vacuum, you should drill the second hole far enough (higher or lower or around the tree) from the first hole so that vacuum doesn't suck air from the wrong hole to the correct one.

[markct]

Just drill another, it's already dead wood don't sweat it

[ren46]

The North American Maple Syrup Producers Manual recommends tapping at least 2 inches and preferably 4 inches to the side of and at least 6 inches above or below a previous taphole.

[JDP]

Hi all.... I seen a video this morning while doing research that showed two taps being set approx. 2 inches apart horizontally. The idea they had was to have both taps drip into the same bucket. Seemed like an equipment and time saver. The tree was large enough to support the two taps but I thought you needed to leave a distance of 6inches between taps. Is this rule only for last years taps or would it apply in a current year as well?

Thx

[unc23win]

Hi all.... I seen a video this morning while doing research that showed two taps being set approx. 2 inches apart horizontally. The idea they had was to have both taps drip into the same bucket. Seemed like an equipment and time saver. The tree was large enough to support the two taps but I thought you needed to leave a distance of 6inches between taps. Is this rule only for last years taps or would it apply in a current year as well?

Thx

The rule is should be applied for any previous tap holes. The tree will compartmentalize around the old tap hole and the wood will change from white to dark and be less productive. If both holes are drilled the same year both could be productive however if you keep doing that you will run out of tapable wood faster.

[JDP]

So effectively two tap holes in the tree are still using the same amount of tabable wood each year. The advantage is one bucket collecting two taps, but the disadvantage is maybe less sap from two holes that close together? Does that make sense?

[unc23win]

If they are close together they may not produce more than just one wood. The disadvantage would be the future as your caparmwntailized wood spots would be bigger. So the number of years in succession that you may be able to tap tree and hit white wood may be reduced. If you go out and find a virgin tree you could dril a ton of holes in it and they all could be white productive wood however the tree will only give so much sap regardless of the number of taps. It is pretty amazing how much harder it gets to avoid old tap holes after a few years with tubing and I would guess even more noticeable with buckets.

As far as the whether the amount of wood carpartmentalized from two very close holes is more than that from one hole I am not sure. But if do that for years you are bound to have trouble following the rule in years to come.

[Bucket Head]

JDP,

I would NOT tap two into the same bucket. I've seen it done and it eventually leads to the tree's premature demise. I don't know what video would promote that practice, but no educated maple producer or researcher would recommend that.

Twenty years ago a guy did that for two or three seasons and the tree's could not "heal" that double wound. The wood died, the bark then came off, the tree above the wounds died and pieces fell into the road, prompting the DPW to remove all of them. The tree's "death" took some years, but was quick in tree life years, but they were healthy 150+ year old tree's and now they are a memory. A very sad story on incorrect tapping methods.

Steve

[maple flats]

That5 sounds like a U-tube method. While you can get some great info on U-Tube, you must be careful, there is no requirement that the poster knows how to do something when they post. A few years ago, I watched a u-tube showing how to tap, and the guy was using a cordless drill. He started the hole, and kept moving the drill in a circulat motion to "open more surface area" to get more sap.

[JDP]

Yes U tube. The holes were drilled with a modified chain saw adapter. Really a nice gas powered drill as opposed to battery powered.

https://youtu.be/gVY2XR0Oz08

I won't be tapping this way after the advise given. Just wondered weather it was an option.

Thx all for the advise. Good luck this year.

I

[DrTimPerkins]

So effectively two tap holes in the tree are still using the same amount of tabable wood each year.

Not sure exactly what you mean by this statement, but I am guessing you mean that by putting two tapholes really close together you are getting more sap, but creating an overall smaller wound since that area would be compartmentalized by the first taphole anyhow. Therefore putting two holes close together creates a smaller wound while getting more sap. If that is what you are implying, then your interpretation is completely wrong from both a wounding and sap yield perspective..

Putting tapholes close together (within an inch or two) is inadvisable for several reasons. First off, the compartmentalized area of a single taphole is just a little wider and a little deeper than the drilled hole. So two holes placed a short distance apart will double (or more, see below) the amount of damaged/stained wood. Vertically however, the stain extends for a considerable distance (6-12" with 5/16" spouts, 12" or more with a 7/16" spout) from the taphole. Keep in mind that once fully compartmentalized, the affected (stained) wood is no longer conductive to sap or useful for storing sugar. Putting two spouts close to each other vertically makes no sense, as you are tapping into the same area sap would originate from with both tapholes, therefore reducing the yield from both of them.

There is some evidence that the affected area around the taphole is somewhat larger than what is visible as stain, so the amount of wood affected is actually larger than we think. Further, if you put two taps close together, they can actually merge or bridge across some distance where we wouldn't normally expect to see stain. In essence the summation of the affected wood area from two tapholes close to each other is GREATER than what you would expect with two tapholes further apart. So putting tapholes in close proximity to one another is definitely more damaging to the tree than two tapholes placed far apart.

Placing too many taps all in a restricted area for a period of time leads to "cluster tapping", which actually kills a portion of the tree cambium. The tree will no longer be able to grow wood in that area, which makes a rather large wound that takes decades to recover from. You also won't get a lot of sap from tapholes in that area. This happens most frequently in two ways: with buckets and a restricted way to get to the stem (due to topography or small trees growing close to the stem causing the maple producer to always tap in the same area, or always tapping over the same large root or under the same large branch), or with tubing when you have multiple taps on a tree that is too small or with droplines that are too short (droplines should be 30"+).

From the sap yield perspective, putting two tapholes close together will generally produce somewhat less sap than two tapholes that are placed further apart. This is particularly true with vacuum. The total sap for two tapholes on buckets might come close to doubling the yield, but two tapholes on vacuum, even when placed on opposite sides of a fairly sizeable tree will not produce double the amount of sap....it is more like 160-170% (rather than 200%).

Finally, there is some thought that the stained column represents a "resistance" in the stem of a tree that makes it more difficult for sap to flow through. Kind of like fat/cholesterol deposits in your arteries. Sap cannot move as easily through these zones. So it makes sense to tap far away from those areas to avoid the restriction. We will be testing this more over the next couple of years.

So overall, placing two taps close together is probably NOT a great idea.

[Bucket Head]

Another way the life of a tree is reduced is by following the myth of "only tapping the south side of a tree". There are other tree's near me that are only taped on that side and are starting to look like the one's I mentioned in my first post. Sadly, the days are now numbered for those beautiful maple's also.

[DrTimPerkins]

Another way the life of a tree is reduced is by following the myth of "only tapping the south side of a tree".

That is correct and a very good point. That practice is one that leads to "cluster tapping."

"Only tap above a large root"
"Only tap below a large branch"
"Only tap on the south side of trees"

All of those myths are very wrong, and all of them are poor practice that lead to impaired tree health, and reduced sap yields. They are right up there we "tubing venting" as far as things to avoid.

[JDP]

Tim: Thanks for the explanation on tapping. If you watch the video I attached you will see why I questioned the technique. I guess the only good thing in the video was the gas powered drill. Looked like a chain saw with a transfer case to a drill? Anyway, I will stay away from this technique.

If you don't mind, can you explain the south facing tapping vs any other side of the tree and the expected yield being the same? More ? Or less?

Thanks again' just finished 75 taps today. Up from 34 last year! Next few days should bring a flow I hope?

[Bucket Head]

JDP,

The south face of a tree will warm quicker than the shaded side of a tree, therefore sap will run sooner. Folks perceived that as "more sap" from that side. But research proves the tree yields the same amount of sap overall, it just takes the shaded taps a little longer to get going. Same difference if you and I tapped the same mountain- whoever had the south side of it would get sap sooner and whoever had the north side would still be boiling after the trees budded on the south side.

Steve

[DrTimPerkins]

....can you explain the south facing tapping vs any other side of the tree and the expected yield being the same? More ? Or less?

Trees are big....and don't all thaw out at the same time. The south sides will tend to run earlier in the season, but also tend to "dry out" faster. The north side will often not start running until later, but typically will run a little later in the season. People have a tendency to like to see sap dripping when they tap since they are getting anxious for the season to start. If they tap on the south and get sap right off, and then tap on the north and get no sap, they then tend to shift to the south side of the tree to get the immediate satisfaction of sap dripping. This happens more with people collecting with buckets or bags than with tubing.

Research has shown that the yields from different sides tend to average out over many years to be about the same. While some years the sap yield may be a little better on one side, the next year it could be better on the other. If you can predict the exact course of the season, then you might be able to come up with the correct tapping strategy for that season. My guess is that you can't (nor can anyone else), so the best course of action is to spread the tapholes ALL around the tapping band of the tree, with some on the north, south, east, and west. This spreads the risk/reward around a bit.

This is one reason I dislike pattern tapping. If people choose to start tapping a bush in one direction the first year (say south) and then move around the tree in a regular pattern, they will generally always be tapping in one direction each season. If it happens to be a good year for that direction then great. However if it turns out to be a bad year for that direction, you're screwed. Seems to me to be better to just spread the tapholes around and mitigate against the risk of choosing the poor direction. There are other reasons as well....but I'll leave it at that for now.

[JDP]

Thanks guys. That is great stuff to know for future years. This is our second year and most of our taps are southern face to take advantage of a perceived increase in sap. We will distribute equally in coming years.

One last question...........

Tapping under a large branch or above a large root?

Advantage,....disadvantage?..........Same/

Thx again for your time in explaining to a novice.

Maybe after a few more years I'll have all the answers? LOL

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

large root, big branch =0

[unc23win]

Some believe tapping above a large root or below a large branch will be more productive. Chances are (depending on the size or your trees number of taps and number year) if you follow a tapping guideline or a rule for avoiding previous tap holes you won't be able to always tap on the south side or above roots or below branches.

[adk1]

doesnt make a difference in the least. What does make a difference is not tapping around a damaged area or dead area of the tree.