Electric releaser question

[madmapler]

I'm thinking about buying an electric releaser that doesn't have a pump. I know nothing about them. The guy said I could use any shallow well pump. I didn't think about it at the time but I thought you needed to use a submersible pump. I'm puzzled because when he said shallow well, he pointed to a few shallow well pumps he had. The only SW pumps I've seen are not water tight. Can someone straighten me out on this? Thanks.

[steam maker]

I know u didnt ask this but i talked to mes about converting my releasers to electric and they said somewhere around 1500 bucks included pump , vfd for pump , barrel for pump to be in , etc . Just wanted to tell u for a reference i guess .

[PerryFamily]

Shallow well pump is a jet pump
Bummer is they can't break the vacuum in a high Vacuum scenario
Talk to Clayton at MES, I've seen a lot of conversions he's done to deep well pumps. They work great

[maplesyrupstove]

WATCHED
3:38
Shallow Well Pump here



…Maple Sap, Vacuum, releaser jar.mpg

[maplesyrupstove]

https://youtu.be/N7r-ONj4unE you tube video shallow well pump

[madmapler]

I guess my post was a little confusing. This releaser had a pump that was taken out to be used in another releaser and I need to know what kind of pump to replace it with. I'm sure Clayton could set me up but I'm looking to pick up a pump on the cheap(not to be confused with a cheap pump) so I'd feel funny about bothering him. MSS, I tried clicking on that link and it said it was removed..

[GeneralStark]

Typically older style electric releasers had an external shallow well or jet pump to pump the sap out of the releaser. Newer style electric releasers have an internal submersible pump and are better in a high-vac. scenario. Deep well submersibles are a better option for many reasons. If you search electric releaser here you will get loads of info. but be warned you are about to enter a very deep rabbit hole.

The big question is why do you want an electric releaser?

[BreezyHill]

12709

There are loads of options for electric releaser pump. The key is to be certain that your pump is position so that any aircan leave the pump when sap enters the releaser.

Above is mine and works great...28+" and best releaser I have run and seen.

Ben

[madmapler]

The big question is why do you want an electric releaser? I have been to a few seminars where electric releasers were said to be the releaser of choice mainly for the lack of moving parts and for the continuous vacuum. I've experienced enough mech. releaser issues to prompt me to try them. I also like the idea of being able to close off the sap container to keep the bugs out. If there's cons to elec. releasers then I'd like to hear them. As I said earlier, I have absolutely no experience with them.

[heus]

I highly recommend a Goulds npe stainless centrifugal pump. They are the absolute best for an electric releaser/high vac setup. The one I use is a 3/4 hp 2st model.

[BreezyHill]

. If there's cons to elec. releasers then I'd like to hear them. As I said earlier, I have absolutely no experience with them.

Having run elec releasers for many years now I have found a couple of issues.
- The sensing system needs to be positive displacement since sap is a poor conductor and changes with sugar content.
- Spare pump is a great maintance shelf item. If the pump fails you will want a replacement.
- A warm home is far better than a freezable location.

Personally; I would not go back to a mechanical releaser ever. The added vac, the enclosed releaser, flexibility of tank location and ability to fill multiple tanks with the releaser is a huge advancement.

In time you will see these releasers in nearly every operation as people see the advantages and how easy they operate. They will even be used in the woods with gas installations by using 12 volt pumps and storage battery charged by the motor.

Ben

[GeneralStark]

I have been to a few seminars where electric releasers were said to be the releaser of choice mainly for the lack of moving parts and for the continuous vacuum. I've experienced enough mech. releaser issues to prompt me to try them. I also like the idea of being able to close off the sap container to keep the bugs out. If there's cons to elec. releasers then I'd like to hear them. As I said earlier, I have absolutely no experience with them.

I have been using an electric releaser for two seasons, though I did upgrade my original design (with help from Clayton) to a unit with a 3 phase deep well submersible controlled by a VFD. This is in a separate chamber that is plumbed to the main releaser chamber from an older Bernard electric releaser that originally used a Goulds external jet pump. I do agree that well designed electric releasers are the way to go if you can do it.

The challenge is finding pumps that can handle high vac. long term. I was visiting the Cornell operation several years ago right after they installed a brand new electric releaser with an external jet pump and they could not get it to work at "28 of vac. I don't know what they ended up doing long term but at lower vac. levels it was ok. There are several threads here discussing issues with jet pumps on electric releasers.

Whatever pump you use it has to be able to overcome the head created by the vac. differential between the inside of the releaser and the exterior atmospheric pressure. Jet pumps are generally low head pumps and this is where it can get tricky, especially if you want to pump the sap any height or distance. This is why manufacturers of electric releasers are now generally using deep-well submersibles in this application, as they have much greater capacity to handle pumping out of a vacuum.

Things to consider are what vac. level you hope to operate at, how far and high you want to pump sap, # of taps, and of course do you have appropriate power to run the pump and can you keep the releaser from freezing?

[GeneralStark]

I highly recommend a Goulds npe stainless centrifugal pump. They are the absolute best for an electric releaser/high vac setup. The one I use is a 3/4 hp 2st model.

Hues - What vac. level are you operating at and for how long have you been using this Goulds pump?

[PerryFamily]

Jet pumps / shallow well pumps suck, literally they draw sap from the releaser. This is why they have a hard time overcoming high vacuum levels. This can be an issue with getting air bound as well. Deep well / submersible pumps push sap out of the releaser there fore have a lot less problems with air and overcoming high vacuum levels.

[madmapler]

I'm going to have to look at this releaser again. I'm not sure what the guy was talking about but it seems plenty big enough for a submersible laid on its side. If so then that seems to be the way to go.

[heus]

They work fine at 27" but I tend to stay around 24-25" or my vac pump overheats.