Installing spouts pre tapping

[bairdswift]

I've been working with a producer getting lines ready. We are going around getting lines tight and installing a new desposeable spout on the drop but not tapping. Are the spouts getting infected if you will just hanging out, until we tap in a few weeks. He has done it this way for years, one less thing to do come tapping time.

[madmapler]

I'm doing that this year also. A guy in my area has done it for years as well. It'll sure be a lot quicker and easier without all the stuff to carry around with you. I think if the drop is dry it'll be alright.

[unc23win]

I do that too and I know others who do also. I think the consensus is that bacteria won't be a problem as long as it is still cold and yes tapping time is improved. I figure you save 20 seconds or so a tap when it comes time to tap and like Sean said less to carry.

[Woodsrover]

You could buy a bag of cheap rubber caps and cap the spiles off until you're ready to drill. McMaster Carr has them for around $10 for 50 of them. That would keep the dirt, dust, bugs, etc out of the line.

[jmayerl]

So you think they get more bacteria on them hanging in the air in the woods or sitting in a bin in a store with all kinds of different people touching them.....

[bairdswift]

So you think they get more bacteria on them hanging in the air in the woods or sitting in a bin in a store with all kinds of different people touching them.....
I guess you got me there... Spider piss maybe? Idk

[sapman]

The spouts I use (cv2s) come in ziplock bags in a big box, so no danger of being touched.

I've preinstalled every year. I will say, I don't leave them hanging nearly as long anymore. Now they get tapped the same day, or within a day or two. Works out good. Install one mainline, then tap, and so forth. But if it's below freezing, I don't see an issue whenever.

[blissville maples]

i have to wonder, bacteria is everywhere so how are we preventing this from being on taps. its not possible i believe that the bacteria we are worried about grows on sugar which is certainly a different bacteria than what may be on our hands, hence why new drops need no cv's nd one year old drop does, the sugar and the bacteria that grows on it is in the old drops.

sampan-why don't you leave them hanging anymore and tap same day as you said?? wondering if you saw some noticeable difference in one way or another?? also how do u like the 3hhp busch pump?? does it handle all 2850??? what u get for inches. father bought me a couple of them so cant wait to see them suckin hear there top of line!!

[sapman]

sampan-why don't you leave them hanging anymore and tap same day as you said?? wondering if you saw some noticeable difference in one way or another?? also how do u like the 3hhp busch pump?? does it handle all 2850??? what u get for inches. father bought me a couple of them so cant wait to see them suckin hear there top of line!!

A friend told me he likes to leave them in the bag as long as possible before tapping, so it just got me thinking to try it. Can't say as it has made a difference, since these things are so hard to quantify. But it makes sense to me to keep as clean as possible. I kind of agree with you about the different types of bacteria, though.

Love the Busch pump. Handles all my taps well. Once I get leaks under control, I've maintained 28"+.

[unc23win]

i have to wonder, bacteria is everywhere so how are we preventing this from being on taps. its not possible i believe that the bacteria we are worried about grows on sugar which is certainly a different bacteria than what may be on our hands, hence why new drops need no cv's nd one year old drop does, the sugar and the bacteria that grows on it is in the old

I am no expert, but I am pretty sure that the tree is going to fight any bacteria the same. The idea of putting on spouts before tapping it to save time when it counts the most. Yes maybe there is a chance spouts and tubing have batteria on them before you install them new, but the spout is what is going into the hole you drilled. The bacteria from the tubing will be pulled into the tap hole by the tree. Obviously there is no economical way of making new tubing cleaner than it is when you install it new. The idea is not to introduce more bacteria than what may already be present if any. This is done by keeping the spouts and tubing clean, dry, and cold since bacteria is more likely to form in warm and or moist conditions. The same reasons why you shouldn't chew on tubing or blow with your mouth into the hole to clean out the shavings. So if your interested in pre installing spouts and don't want to take a chance of getting added bacteria then wait until after fall. If you order your spouts by the hundreds or thousands chances are they haven't been touched much by hands if any (you might be the first person to touch them).

[DrTimPerkins]

i have to wonder, bacteria is everywhere so how are we preventing this from being on taps. its not possible i believe that the bacteria we are worried about grows on sugar which is certainly a different bacteria than what may be on our hands, hence why new drops need no cv's nd one year old drop does, the sugar and the bacteria that grows on it is in the old drops.

It is not merely the presence of microbes, but also the quantity. When trees "sense" microbes within their tissues, the strength of the tree wound response is moderated by the strength of the eliciting trigger. In other words, the MORE microbes are present, the stronger and faster the wound response. That is why good spout and tubing sanitation practices work....it is not that they keep the taphole sterile, it is that they delay or reduce taphole contamination more than it would otherwise be. That is one reason why sap backflow is such a bad thing. When sap moves from contaminated spouts or tubing systems back into the taphole, the liquid (sap) moves back into the vessels and fibers of the wood. However the microbes often will collect on the inner taphole surface sort of like a filter. This high concentration of microbes inside the taphole results in a heightened tree wound response, and faster compartmentalization of the wound. Compartmentalization results in the "walling off" of the area to prevent microbes from getting "in" the tissues of the tree, but simultaneously restricts the movement of sap out, thereby reducing sap yield. This effect is first noticeable about half way through the season. Although sap flow doesn't stop immediately, it gets more and more restricted each day.

The analogy would be if you have a dam. A small leak might get you to start thinking that you should repair that, and perhaps you put a little energy into dumping a wheelbarrow load of dirt into the trickle every now and then to address it. But you're not going to break out the heavy machinery just yet because it's not that big a deal at the moment and I've got better things to do with my time and money. Same thing with trees....they aren't going to invest a lot of energy fixing what they perceive to be just a minor problem. But all of a sudden you get a big break in the dam.....holy smokes....now it is time to put some resources into fixing that leak before it gets any worse. Bring in the D10 and dump trucks and let's get this thing plugged up NOW before it lets go and causes more damage!

[syrup2nv]

Started pre spouting yesterday (CV2's). 1700 on with 1700 left. We have done this the past several years. Saves a lot of time, "when it's time". I also have about 6500 pre-made (at the factory) drops w/spouts installed and dangling in a new woods.
In my opinion they get contaminated right at the manufacturer before the consumer even has a chance to. Regardless, all of my hands are required to wear gloves at all time while dealing and working with any tubing spout or fitting. Seems to work for us. We do our part.


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