Advice on conventional/ 3/16"

[markcasper]

I am in an unplanned situation and need everyones advice. I have about 70 - 80 additional taps to add in on the west side of one of my woods. I already have 2 one inch mains @ 500 feet each laying on the ground along with the wire already tightened, pitched and side tied. I did this last year before season and it was as far as I got. There is about 60-70 feet max between the two proposed mainlines. Both of them would feed into the already exsisting system.

My question is should I just scrap the idea of one of the mains and go with 3/16" instead, since you want more than 3-4 taps on a lateral? The lats would now become up to 150 feet, but it'd save tremendously on saddles, wire ties, 500 ft of mainline, an extra SS Y, end of lats rings....whatever. All of this slopes to the west/southwest and the lower mainline runs parallel to a hay corn field. The slope of the woods is between 10/15 percent, so not 30 feet of drop here, but there would be pumped vacuum either way. What do I do???

One additional note, this woods is in the MFL and I'm only going to get 8, maybe 10 years MAX before I'll have to rip it out for thinning and this is why I got thinking of going with 3/16" to save on wasting a mainline and only get 8 years out of it

[psparr]

I have two runs of around 500' each and pull nearly 30" of vac. Seems to me you've got yourself a win win situation.

[maple flats]

I'd run the 3/16 down to the lower main. Then with the vacuum pump you will have a great hybrid system and as you say, fewer saddles and no second large mainline. That will save big bucks and you will still get 30" vac on the upper half any ways by adding the pump vacuum at that main and the natural vacuum you get from gravity on the 3/16. In fact, Tim Wilmott says that is a great way to set up with 3/16.

[markcasper]

I'd run the 3/16 down to the lower main. Then with the vacuum pump you will have a great hybrid system and as you say, fewer saddles and no second large mainline. That will save big bucks and you will still get 30" vac on the upper half any ways by adding the pump vacuum at that main and the natural vacuum you get from gravity on the 3/16. In fact, Tim Wilmott says that is a great way to set up with 3/16.

So you don't think there'd be any loss of vacuum on the lats closer to the mainline either that only have a few feet of drop? I contemplated skipping the one mainline even last year with 5/16, but then decided it'd be better because there is potentially 50 or so taps further up on the neighboring property which I forgot to mention. These 50 taps could however be done with 3/16" as well. I am then looking at 120 taps or so coming down through this 1 inch main before it gets to the 1 1/4". I don't know what to do???

I already have all the supplies to install this the original way and I now would have to go out and buy the tools and 3/16" tubing, saddles etc. At the same time I'd kind of like to try the 3/16". The idea of half the saddles really interests me. Looking for more advice. And tubing tool !)!??? How do you make a 5/16" tool into a 3/16 with just tape? Or just get it over and buy the right tool?

[blissville maples]

just wrap the tape any way you can around the jaws where the tubing goes. i tied a piece of cellophane plastic around it that worked as well. experiment try it, that's what i did, used it in woods today, worked good

[sugarsand]

If your considering buying a new tubing tool, do yourself a favor and get a Hot End System, by far faster and easier.

sugarsand

[maple flats]

I did all of my 3/16 with a hot end system, I don't own a 3/16 tool and when installing I never use a 1 or 2 handed tool anymore. I do still do repairs with a 1 handed tool and I have needed no repairs yet on my 3/16. I'll need to adapt my 1 one handed too because for repairs I likely won't carry the hot end. I hear you can either slit a piece of 5/16 and slide it over the 3/16 to make a 5/16 tool work. Others put layers of tape in the clamp, but that won't work good if you need to go back and forth between the 2 sizes.
As far as saddles, you use far fewer than half the saddles. on 5/16 you want 5 taps, on 3/16 you want at least 15 and in the mid 20's is great. Studies have determined that 37 works good, I don't know if that is max or if it can go even higher. If your 3/16 laterals average 25 taps, you only use 20% as many saddles
As far as the lower taps as the 3/16 approaches the main, I stopped putting taps in on the 3/16 and ran 5/16 on a separate lateral for those, but then I was told by many that I should have simply kept putting those lower ones on the 3/16 as well.
For my saddles I'm using 5/16 and the hook connector at the mainline is 3/16 x 5/16.

[markcasper]

As far as saddles, you use far fewer than half the saddles. on 5/16 you want 5 taps, on 3/16 you want at least 15 and in the mid 20's is great. Studies have determined that 37 works good, I don't know if that is max or if it can go even higher. If your 3/16 laterals average 25 taps, you only use 20% as many saddles
As far as the lower taps as the 3/16 approaches the main, I stopped putting taps in on the 3/16 and ran 5/16 on a separate lateral for those, but then I was told by many that I should have simply kept putting those lower ones on the 3/16 as well.
For my saddles I'm using 5/16 and the hook connector at the mainline is 3/16 x 5/16.

This is what frustrates me! After getting it engrained to do it a certain way....strive for 5...so to say, now its all wrong and backwards. I only have about 60-70 taps there in this 1.5 acre patch, its mostly all red maple (hence why it was left for last). I was taught to try and run the laterals as straight as possible off the main with no bends, better to use more saddles and keep the bends to the bare minimum. By doing this, there will be NO WAY I WILL GET EVEN CLOSE TO 15 TAPS of 3/16" PER LATERAL EVEN BY ELIMINATING the 2nd mainline UNLESS, its now magically ok to zig zag the 3/16". Not trying to be a smartA$$, but some of this I wonder if its not being done to just sell more supplies and equipment.

Maybe it'd be better to just stay with the one mainline and just run 5/16" and have longer lats? I mean if I were to do this with 3/16 and only have 5 taps on each lat, then it sounds like the benefit of using 3/16 will be defeated and it actually will probably result in a yield reduction, since you wont get as much artificial vacuum through a 3/16 as a 5/16? Now thats contrary to the sugaring bible, but honestly does one get that much more? its not like it will be the whole woods. The rest of the woods is set up so there is only 2-3 taps per lat with many only 30-50 feet away from the main.

[psparr]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/24/109a47fa5b9afb71d0ccd34b59105d73.jpg17 taps all zig-zaggy

[markcasper]

As far as the lower taps as the 3/16 approaches the main, I stopped putting taps in on the 3/16 and ran 5/16 on a separate lateral for those, but then I was told by many that I should have simply kept putting those lower ones on the 3/16 as well.
.

I'd like to know the reasoning the people gave for telling you this? Thats exactly what frustrates me, my thought would be to run 5/16 if there is minimal slope. It would be the most logical since your 3/16 with no slope wont do squat without a vacuum pump, and then your limiting your artificial vacuum with the smaller line size. When your on pumped vacuum the 3/16 would become a limiting factor in vacuum the same as more than 100ft of lats...5/16, too many bends, too many connecters etc...

[markcasper]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/24/109a47fa5b9afb71d0ccd34b59105d73.jpg17 taps all zig-zaggy

is there 30 feet of drop on every tap after this gauge? what are you getting if the gauge was on the tree by the tank?

[psparr]

That's the top tree. I have a few taps below the 30' mark, but on my pure gravity system, any vac is good vac.

[psparr]

[QUOTE=and then your limiting your artificial vacuum with the smaller line size. [/QUOTE]

You get more vac with the smaller line size. The 5/16 can't hold the surface tension of the sap and allows gas to pass sap.