3/16 Questions

[D and D Sugar Camp]

We are going to go to 3/16 tubing this season. I will have 3 laterals using the 3/16 " tubing , 2 with 11 taps and 1 with 7.Can I use a 5/16 main line ? I have plenty of drop to my collection point,but was worried about losing vacuum at the main line tie in locations.
Should I use 3/16 for the main to help with vacuum? Which set up will yield more sap?

[Bucket Head]

Use the 3/16 for the whole thing. The drop to the collection point is crucial to the tube creating vacuum. I just attended a presentation about 3/16 and the presenter had a line with 37 taps on it.

[DrTimPerkins]

Use the 3/16 for the whole thing. The drop to the collection point is crucial to the tube creating vacuum. I just attended a presentation about 3/16 and the presenter had a line with 37 taps on it.

Just adding to that recommendation, if you use separate 3/16" lines for your lateral line runs, do not Y them together.

[D and D Sugar Camp]

Dr.
Should I scrap the idea of using tees at at the 3 main line connection points? The main line will drop 60' per 200' of run,and I can easily achieve the 30' number below the last tap on all three laterals.
Thanks for your help.

[D and D Sugar Camp]

Thanks for your help.

[DrTimPerkins]

Should I scrap the idea of using tees at at the 3 main line connection points? The main line will drop 60' per 200' of run,and I can easily achieve the 30' number below the last tap on all three laterals.

The best way, if it isn't too far, would be to run each of the 3/16" lines separately down to your collection point. That way if you have a leak on one it won't affect the others. If that isn't practical, with that number of taps you could use some sort of mainline (1/2" or 3/4" would all be OK....5/16" might work, but might not be the best approach) to pick up each of the 3/16" lateral lines. You shouldn't tee in the 3/16" lines into one 3/16" "mainline" though....that seems to create a bottleneck according to Tim Wilmot's work.

[D and D Sugar Camp]

Thanks Dr. Always enjoy reading your posts.

[BlueberryHill]

I would like to pile on to this question if that is OK. I have a "conventional" 3/16 setup. 2 runs. About 30 taps per run. 30 foot drop after the last tap. Worked good for the last 2 years. Never satisfied though. I have recently heard of others having some success with adding a Lunchbox Releaser to the end of the 3/16 lines. The lunchbox input is 5/16. My plan is, at the bottom of the 3/16 run, step each line up to 5/16 for just a couple inches, then "Y" them together, and run the 1 single 5/16 line into the lunchbox. I think that stepping up to 5/16 right at the end before "Y"ing the lines will prevent a bottleneck since the 5/16 is about 3x the capacity of a single 3/16 line. Plus, the added pull by the lunchbox can't hurt. I think it will should get me a good increase in sap. I have seen many days where the 3/16 is running real slow or not starting up very quickly after it thaws out so I am hoping the lunchbox will be a nice little kick start and overall booster to the system. Cheap enough experiment anyway. Just wanted to see what you guys think. And also see if my plumbing plan is the best way to go or not.

[DrTimPerkins]

I have a "conventional" 3/16 setup. 2 runs. About 30 taps per run. 30 foot drop after the last tap. Worked good for the last 2 years. Never satisfied though.

What exactly do you mean by "...never satisfied..." Do you mean that you didn't get good production, or that you just always think you could get better?

If the former (not good production), have you measured your vacuum level at the tops of the runs? What were the readings? If they were low (< 25" Hg), then you have leaks and need to tighten things up. 3/16" tubing is not very forgiving of leaks.

If the latter (you just want higher vacuum), have you measured your vacuum at the tops of the runs? If it is > 25", then you're probably not going to do a lot better with any sort of pump, but the pump might help increase the CFM moving through the system and help overcome some of the leaks. If it is this high, a hybrid system (pump + 3/16") might not help you much since it sounds like you have the optimal setup for 3/16" to start with. A hybrid system will help if you don't have quite enough slope, or just want to convert a 5/16" system to 3/16" without changing over the mainlines, so it is not set up optimally for 3/16" to work well.

If the reading is often 27" or better, then you're probably not going to get any better no matter what you do (what is the elevation of your bush), since the max is going to be ~29" Hg, and no amount of pumping is going to get beyond that (unless you go to Death Valley and dig a really deep hole to get way down below sea level). A pump might help start things moving a little earlier, but realistically...it won't help a lot. The flow rate is proportion to the pressure in the tree, so once it thaws then you're going to get the same amount of sap (depending upon your vacuum level and sanitation/time factor). With a quickly thawed line you'll get it a bit faster, with a slow thawing line it'll just be delayed a little, but typically you'll end up with about the same amount of sap unless it is a very brief run (quick thaw followed by a quick freeze) like we sometimes get in the early season.

Either way, it comes down to fixing the leaks first.

As far as stepping up to 5/16" right at the end....could work. If everything was running well I'd be concerned about overwhelming the 5/16" line though, but not likely to happen except on an really good run.

[BlueberryHill]

Thanks Doc. Never satisfied.. I just mean that I always want more sap! This setup did pretty good on it's own. I was good about leaks. My vac gauges would often show high 20's, but they are pretty cheap gauges so it's all ballpark. One of them is reading 22 right now with all the taps pulled, haha (needs to be replaced)

There were just some days when it seemed like it was running slower than it should compared to some other stuff I have set up around here. Still not sure exactly what I should be expecting, but I think I will try this out just for kicks anyway. If I don't notice any improvement then I can just use the lunchbox somewhere else. I have a lot of "Mini-Bushes" here. No real respectable sugar bush.

Thank you very much for your detailed response. I appreciate your insight and that is useful info for sure. Now you have me thinking about a couple spots with maybe only 15 feet of drop that I could still set up on 3/16 with a "booster" lunchbox at the end. Hummmmm.....