Dryline arrangement. Will it work?

[madmapler]

I set up a woods last year where the entire 3000 taps is on the same relatively steep hillside. Today I found out the farmer who owns the land has another bush that is on the mountain behind the one that I'm currently tapping. I can run my wet line around the first mountain and reach the back bush by adding another 3000' of line to my lowest main going in that direction. I currently have an 1.5" dryline that goes straight up to the top the first mountain. I'm thinking that I can continue that line down the other side of the hill and straight over to the other bush shortening my distance considerably. It would mean that my dryline would tie in to the other system toward the top of the other bush with the sap going the other way. Can anybody see any issues with that?

[maple flats]

Yes. A dry line typically carries sap. If you have a super run the excess rises into the dry line. Secondly, when there is a freeze and the sap in the wet line freezes, there is significant sap that uses the dry line as a main when the trees start to thaw but the wet line is still frozen until the frozen wet line thaws. Both of these cases mean that the dry line must maintain a downward slope, otherwise you will not get any vacuum flow thru the "dry line" and it will be totally useless and a total waste to have been set up in the first place.
Problem 2, you have 3000' of inch and a half dry line, I don't have my tubing book here, but my guess is that no matter how much pump you have, at best you'll be lucky to get 15" vac at the 3000' mark, then you want to add 3000 more feet. No way.
A wet dry line must still be pitched, while 2% is good, steeper can work. If the wet gets too steep you get turbulence in the line which is an issue.
Is there a way you can route around the contours of the mountain? My first suggestion is that you invest in a Cornell Maple Tubing Workbook by Steve Childs. It will help you understand how tubing and vacuum work. It will give you sizes needed based on length and the pump vac. level. My guess, is for 6000' (only if it was pitched properly) you would need 3 or maybe even 4" for a dry line to handle anywhere near 6000 taps and if all in 1 wet line, maybe 2.5" wet (I'm just guessing, the notebook will give you the answers.
For that number, It might work if you had 2 or more collection locations and then pump the sap over the mountain is long as you can get a pump of enough head, or if necessary a series of pumps (2-3-4?) depending on the total rise. Once you get it to the top, gravity will transport it from there.
The other option is to see if an experienced installer can either be hired to set it up, or at least walk the mountains with you and advise (for a fee).

[unc23win]

If you extend the line from bush to other and install it as a whip or use a booster/manifold then it could be made to not carry sap the wrong way, but could provide vacuum to the newer bush. Looks like 6000" is 8-9 cfm so not enough, but if your wet is bigger or you run more than one wet or dry it might work. Interesting idea for sure.

[madmapler]

I guess I wasn't clear in my description. I would end up with about 4000 ' of wet line that would round the bottom of the front hill and give me about 2% pitch. It'll be 1"dry and 3/4"wet for about half the distance then 1" the rest of the way. It won't carry much vacuum but will primarily carry the sap from about 1000 taps. I want to use 1" because a) its what already exists on the front hill where it will continue on from. and b)I got a good deal on a crapload of 1"pipe! The 1 1/2 line goes straight over the top and is a much shorter distance getting back to the new bush. It'll never carry any sap because it will descend over the top and down into the ravine between the front and back hill. That distance is about 2000' from the pump. I would only have to add about 700' to what's already there. If I was smarter I could figure out how to post a diagram but my wife's not here at the moment.

[unc23win]

Sean those numbers work better for sure. Looks like I was right when I assumed from your first post that you were planning on the dry for increased vacuum and not to carry sap ever. I totally understand the dry going over the hill and the wet bringing the sap around and would probably do it the same way.

[BreezyHill]

The only issue that I see is that you will have evacuation force coming from separate directions. If you were to have a leak and the air was rushing uphill to go to the over the mountain line this will hinder sap flow at a minimum. In the worst case it could cause major turbulence that could affectively block the line to some extent.

If the system is tight and relatively leak free I see no issue but if there were an issue an isolation valve would remedy the issue until the leak is found. The open the valve and have more vac to the system.

This was an issue I had after I added an elevated dry line over my brook. Dry line is 4' over the main on the state line so the chill in the brook would not freeze the dry line. When a drop pulled off a spout the sap was going 30' upgrade and up the 4' connector line and down the dry line. The dry line was 1" and the wet line is a 3/4".

Just because it is not the normal setup does not mean it wont work...but you may need to adjust your leak finding protocol.

Good Luck!

Ben

[madmapler]

Thanks for the input guys. I guess we're thinking it should work. Ben, What you're saying is true. I do have isolation valves on all my mainline branches along with a vac. guage. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[J. hutchins]

It is not ideal but it works. I did it in one section of my bush (400 taps). I just made sure it was one uphill and one down hill, so no valleys where morning surge sap could get stuck. At the first secondary main line junction instead of a regular whip I used a Goodrich style manifold so sap could drop back into the wet line. Not the best but install and maintenance wise seemed like the right choice to me.