gonna build a oil tank arch, and get pans made, thoughts on my plans?

[dgdm]

Hi there, been searching through here to try and figure out some plans prior to attempting a build, never made any syrup before but figured rather than buy a bunch of steam pans and spending time rigging something up I might as well start with something halfway decent. I liver on 200 acres and have about 35 tappable sugar maples and 65 acres of silver maple swamp, planning to focus on the sugars and maybe hit some of the more accessible silvers if I feel inclined. here are my plans thus far:
1- use a 23" x 5' oil tank cut it in half, possibly leaving a piece at the back for attaching the chimney, haven't decided if it is worth the loss of space for the pans rather than coming off rear with an elbow
2- bought a barrel stove kit for doors and attaching chimney, gonna salvage some cast grates from a completely rusted arch in a sugar shack in some woods I know of, and as much fire brick as I can dig out of the ground around it, anything else I can find too.
3- thinking of installing it permanently in an old stove shed on the property. the prior owner fixed it up real nice, insulated the roof and lined in rough pine, new windows all around and a woodstove. I am a little nervous about mucking it up with boiling sap, but it is otherwise unused. I was going to install my arch on the steel woodstove chimney which is 6 inches, there is a tall window nearby that could eventually be used for exhausting a hood if I ever decide to build one.
4- planning on lining firebox with fire brick, welding in a ramp to direct fire to pans and insulating with roxul, similar to other plans i have seen here
5- a friend has agreed to build me a pan, he will likely give me a very good deal on it so I want to be modest in my design to not take advantage of his generosity. will ask for 18 or 20 gauge stainless, all welded.
6- pan design right now would be with two lengthwise dividers in the back running 3.5 feet long and a 18" section at the front for syrup. I feel a little guilty asking for big dropped or raised flues because of the amount of material and welding involved, thinking of asking for the bottom to be corrugated in "W" pattern as I assume this would be simpler and cheaper for him to fabricate but still have the benefit of increased surface area, likely double the surface area of a flat pan.
7- heres a crazy idea that I have not come across before, thinking of designing pan so I can use it for canning, a 1 litre mason jar is 7 inches high, a 10 inch deep pan would let me make a huge amount of canned apple sauce in one large batch (I really like apple sauce)

Questions

1- any general comments about the plan (good, bad, ugly)?
2- is it worthwhile to make flow reversible with valve or plugs or something?
3- will I regret not getting really deep flues made, will the corrugated pan design be a good compromise?
4- will it be a mistake converting my stone shed into sugar shack
5- how much gap to leave between bottom of pan and arch
6- how big a firebox to build (depth, height)
7- I assume most people make a lip around the outside edge of the pan to sit on an angle iron skirt on the arch. how deep should i set the pan into the arch? was thinking about half way for stability, do you supply any other support for the pan such as cross members inside the arch (heat would likely ruin these anyway)?
8- anything you might recommend I have not considered?


thanks for any/all thoughts, I have a couple of months to get it together so need to get started, need to get the arch design finalized so I can size the pan and get it made in time.

thanks,
Dave

[lpakiz]

Some thoughts....do not set your pan down into the firebox. Sap will scorch on the sides.
Make the top rail of the arch from 2X3X3/16 angle iron, 3 inch dimension down. Then set the pan on top. Unless we get an earthquake, it won't go anywhere. Set the pans on woven arch gasket, 1 1/2 or 2 inch wide by 1/8 ? thick.
Consider making an arch from scratch, with square bottom and sides, and standard width and length. This will be easier to insulate and brick. But there's many made out of oil tanks, too. 3/16 thick angle iron might be overkill for an oil tank, tho.
I suggest making the pans 24 inches wide, and the top of the arch 25 1/2. That will give 3/4 inch overlap on each side. In the future you can build, or buy, better pans if you build to a standard width. 10 inches tall will be fine, but no more for a flat pan.
Your 24 inch wide pan will be strong enough to support itself, without cross-members under it.
Protect all steel inside of the arch with blanket, brick or furnace cement to prevent eroding of the metal from the heat.
Force the flames to go almost tight to the bottom of the pan, (maybe an inch) for at least 1/2 their length, or more.
Firebox for natural draft should be several inches longer than the wood. For a 6 foot rig, burn 14-18 inch wood.
Height of firebox should be 14-18 inches from grate to underside of pan.
A lot of syrup is made on flat pans, but, as you understand, flues do increase exchange area and make a more efficient, faster rig.
On average, figure on a gallon per tap per day, when running. Figure also that a flat pan will evaporate approximately 1 gallon per hour, per square foot. 35 taps, 10 square foot pan, 3 1/2 hours per boil-PERFECT
Consider an adjustable forced draft fan in the ash door. You will not regret that.

[Newbie18]

Working on a very similar arch myself. Using an old 2x5 oil tank cut in half. Basically 2' wide fire box at one end and then an arch to the other end. Top has a 24 1/2 x 48 1/2 opening (made out of angle iron and welded to top), where I can place my 24x48" SS flat bottom pan. It will sit into angle iron ( with a fire gasket). Remaining 1 ft on top has a plat welded across it with a 6" flue (dampened.). The door, on the front www I'll also be sealed. Plan on exhausting out end of shed and then up. Using 2 old range hoods (vents connected) to vent steam outside. One end of old oil tank had a 1" hole in it for connection to oil filter. Am using this hole as an place where I can attach a fan to provide forced a it for firebox. SS pan has a draw off valve as well as a temp probe in it. Also going to line firebox and arch with firebrick. Hoping this will work well! Any thoughts or suggestions

[Sugarmaker]

Dave,

Questions

1- any general comments about the plan (good, bad, ugly)? Have fun building and setting it up!
2- is it worthwhile to make flow reversible with valve or plugs or something? Yes unless it makes it to complicated? then save that for another time.
3- will I regret not getting really deep flues made, will the corrugated pan design be a good compromise? You will have fun even on flat pans!
4- will it be a mistake converting my stone shed into sugar shack. NO! how much fun can you have with stones? Stones can set out side:)
5- how much gap to leave between bottom of pan and arch. If you mean room for wood? At least 16-18 inches.
6- how big a firebox to build (depth, height) Well you are somewhat limited by the size of the drum you start with. Make the fire box as roomy as possible.
7- I assume most people make a lip around the outside edge of the pan to sit on an angle iron skirt on the arch. how deep should i set the pan into the arch? was thinking about half way for stability, do you supply any other support for the pan such as cross members inside the arch (heat would likely ruin these anyway)? Yea don't set the pan down in the arch it setts on the top rail, with flames under only not up the sides of the pan.
8- anything you might recommend I have not considered? 40 taps = 10 gallon of syrup = 1/2 cord of good dry wood cut it now and have it dry. get a good digital thermometer in tenths for checking when you have syrup. Also get a hydrometer and cup to double check the density
Have a draw off port to get the syrup out of the pan.
Regards,
Chris

[dgdm]

thanks for the thoughts, particularly about recessing the pan into the arch. I am thinking it might be better and more versatile in long run to have two pans, one 4 foot sap pan and a 1 foot finish pan. both 2 feet wide. They will stick out slightly wider than my arch but dont anticipate that being a problem the sap pan with three dividers, I can reverse it to change flow, the syrup pan will be able to be repurposed if need be to a preheat pan or a canning pan without having to boil the whole set up, plus it will fit onto my range inside to finish the sap.

Also thinking of putting a side load on my arch, in my house I have a side load woodstove so cut my wood as long as 22 inches to fill her up, a side load on the arch would let me keep the front to back depth modest while allowing fairly long pieces of wood and ramping up the back wall quickly to get max heat to the pans.

putting my pans at a full five feet total will require me to have a exhaust out the back of the arch, rather than the top but I think I will easily be able to rig up the chimney with some of the salvaged metal I cut off from the tank sticking out the back, could use the extra surface area as a spot to set a warming pan.

questions:
1- will it work allright to rig up a siphon to transfer sap between pans rather than having a permanent connection. U" with a valve at the top to keep the siphon functioning so I can get it in the pan, probably be a good idea to have a tap on both pans for draining.
2- what do you recomend as far as handles on the pan, assuming I need something on each corner or an eye to attach chain or slide a rod through to lift.

thanks again

[Woody77]

12395 this is my oil tank heater true flat pan no deviders, but coning this year. I used the top as a hood and it helps keep heat on the pan increased evaporation noticeably raised it off the pan and made lexan pannels so the local scouts could see what was going on and just left it I kinda like it that way now . I made an axcess dor in the back of the arch to remove ash and force the draft from under the fire . I get close to 18 gph on 10 sqft .my chimney is a 6" galvinised culvert I found that hooks to a 5-1/2" flange I welded to the back .it works fine but have to place fire bricks in a v pattern inside the arch to force the fire out towards the back corners.I would rather have a rectangular flue coming off the back and a 8" stack with a damper if needed but his is year 20. I'm going to buy a 2×8 from smokey lake.an let someone else play with this one. Dad wants to keep it to monkey around with black walnut or something like that