Timber frame model

[Kh7722]

12317

Scale model of sugar house planed for 2016,getting lumber prices now, hopefully we can make it a reality

[unc23win]

Nice looking model you have there make it happen.

[Woodsrover]

Nice!

Do you have land with timber? Get yourself a small sawmill and do it yourself!

[Ghs57]

Nice Dutch style frame. What are your foundation dimensions?

[Brian Ryther]

http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=8117&d=1384625422
Looks pretty similar to mine.

[johnallin]

That's going to be a nice looking sugar house, I'm partial to timber framed structures...
We're also in NE Ohio - Lake County on Little Mountain.
Good luck with the build. John

[Sugarmaker]

I like models like that. Should be a real nice sugarhouse.
Some suggestions:
Make sure those brace beams are not head knockers! What is the distance from the bottom brace to the floor?

What size evaporator are you going to put in? Think about hoods and steam pipes to allow folks to enjoy that beautiful wood frame instead of a steam filled room.

I would recommend a foundation under the arch area down below the frost line. Also make that foundation big enough to handle the biggest evaporator you will ever have! :)

Where is your wood storage area going to be?
Regards,
Chris

[Michael Greer]

My sugarhouse is very similar...one bent longer because I put a 6ft. breezeway between the evaporator room and the woodshed.file:///home/michael/Desktop/Link%20to%20Pictures/sugar%20house12332

[Kh7722]

Thanks for the advise everyone, the dimensions of the sugar house are going to be 16x24 on a block foundation with all of the wood for the framing timbers cut from white pine off of our property. The siding is going to be shiplap or t&g hemlock from a local mill. The evaporator is going to be a 2x8 smokey lake pans on a leader oil fired arch, so no need for wood storage. I'm sure that there are many more things that I am over looking but all advice is great. There is a local Timber framer in the area that I hope to talk with about more advice and more experienced views on this, but very excited to start
Thanks
K. Holy

[johnallin]

There is a local Timber framer in the area that I hope to talk with about more advice and more experienced views on this, but very excited to start
Thanks
K. Holy

Would that be Scott Carlson from Sweet Grass Joinery? Scott designed, built and erected (with our family helping) our sugarhouse frame. Wonderful guy to deal with.
Link to his site and our project is here: http://sweetgrassjoinery.com/little-mountain-sugarhouse/

[Ghs57]

Nice!

Do you have land with timber? Get yourself a small sawmill and do it yourself!

You can do this, if you have the time. I cut most of my timbers from my trees, but did not have enough to finish, so had to buy some. We have the pine bore here real bad, and there is an abundant supply of dead white pine if you mill it before the worms move in. I don't have a sawmill, but have become proficient with a couple of different chainsaw rigs.

I cut frames whenever I can, and have done several in this style. Wish I were closer, would love to help.

[Maple Ridge]

That is so awesome. That should be donated to a Maple museum. What a nice looking job.

[Woodsrover]

We have the pine bore here real bad, and there is an abundant supply of dead white pine if you mill it before the worms move in.

Please keep that bug over there! I have enough standing white pine to keep me in lumber for anything I might want to build and I'd hate to see it go. Not that far from you either.

[51 cub]

Very nice! I can't wait to see the pictures of the 12 inch to the foot scale!

[wildlifewarrior]

That is an awesome model. I have a question, what size beams are you using 6x6? Also are you planning on having 5 beams on the 24foot side? I think you could get by with three, just one bent in the middle. We have a 24x14 and only have three bents, look into it, usually you can get by with 16 foot spans max, so if you have a 24 foot section, with one at 12ft, with your wind braces you would be looking at like a 6-7 foot span with no actual support. It would save on wood big time…. just something to think about.

Here is ours: Mosher Farms Sugar Shack (http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?21411-14-X-20-Post-and-beam-build.-Updates-with-my-progress.&p=288176#post288176)

Mike

[Ghs57]

Please keep that bug over there! I have enough standing white pine to keep me in lumber for anything I might want to build and I'd hate to see it go. Not that far from you either.

I probably have 50 standing dead pines right now. You are closer than I thought. We will try to keep the bugs on the west side of the Hudson. The bug is vicious.

K. Holy:

As mentioned above, you may be able to reduce the amount of timber in your frame. This very much depends on the span, wood species and the type of joinery. My current project spans 14 feet between bents with 8x10 white pine top plates. On your style, which really only has mortices in the top plates, you could maybe go four bents with 8x8 plates. I'd have to do the math. If you do purlins between rafters, you can reduce the number of rafters if those remaining are properly sized. With mortice and tenon joinery, timber size/span depends on what's left after the joints are cut, and the wood species. My last 16x32 structure was a five bent affair, made out of white pine. If you build your model, you will have an unqualified strong building.

Not sure how it is where you are, but anything that size built here requires permits; therefore drawings, sometimes stamped by an engineer. Although I'm not an engineer, I've had to provide the data for permits. Usually, for agricultural buildings, inspectors have some discretion and are reasonable.

Good luck on your project!

[bigschuss]

Awesome project! Historically, even modest North American timber frame buildings have always been over-built. I'd say your building is WAY over-built! Nothing wrong with that at all. It looks awesome! I'll echo what a few others mentioned. You might be able to get away with 3 bents. Four for sure. And for the rafters a 4' OC spacing is doable.

If you intend to have a loft of any kind for storage you might add 18'" or so of post above each beam to each bent. That will give you a little more headroom.

Here's mine after 2 months of cutting the joints and about 5 hours of assembly time with my buds...it's a 12x16 with a shed on each side. My avatar is the final product.

Good luck man. That's going to be great.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/bigschuss/Sugar%20Shack/P9110003.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/bigschuss/media/Sugar%20Shack/P9110003.jpg.html)

[West Mountain Maple]

GEtting ready to do one myself, 24 x 36, been doing tons of timber frame research. I plan on doing the same type of frame as your model, but like others said, only 4 bents, and thats on 36', so three 12' bays, 24x24 room for the evap, and 12x24 left for kitchen / future ro room. I was planning on using a heavier rafter at the ends of the coupala, headered to each other at the width of the coupala, with jack rafters to those headers, to eliminate the common rafter peaks from being in the vent and collecting condensation and dripping. Also, make sure you leave enough length between the crossbeam/post joint and your top of post to plate beam joint, the post is prone to splitting here if that is less than 1 foot apart, It looks a little short on your model. Without collar ties, this joint is all that is resisting your rafter thrust, the mortise you use there should be a thru tenon, as long as the post is deep, for maximum "relish" past the peg holes on the tenon.

wildlifewarrior - from what i understand, the wind braces are not considered a bearing point when calculating the beam needed for the span post to post, and the full span should be used for these.

[wildlifewarrior]

You are correct, but if you look into how hammer trusses work the weight of the roof loads transferred through the windbraces to the vertical post. The main job of wind braces is to prevent the building from being pushed over, but when you have a load above it(hay for example) you need to proportionally beef up the wind braces to effectively transfer some of the load to the ground. So if you are just trying to get an idea of what over vs under built looks like an understanding of load distribution may still be novel. This is why I mentioned the full length of the beam then explained the portion without any real Load transfer the middle few feet. it is important when calculating the beam dimensions it ignore windbraces (where overbuilding comes in), since you could use 2x4s to prevent it from blowing over, if you are using the top for storage they do do work.

I do suggest to anyone who is building a post and beam either take a course or find someone to apprentice with, we did the latter as he helped us build the structure. You learn a ton from talking to individuals at leisure. You can learn a lot from books and videos but when you get stuck it is nice to have someone with experience to ask.
Mike

[sap retreiver]

I think I've mentioned it before here but forestry forum is an incredible place for information on a lot of different topics. I forget his last name but one of the moderators Jim is awesome with all these questions and more. He mine as well be an engineer. Good luck.

[regor0]

That's going to be a nice looking sugar house, I'm partial to timber framed structures...
We're also in NE Ohio - Lake County on Little Mountain.
Good luck with the build. John

No kiddin, I used to live in that house on Mt. Glen farms, while my wife was doing here residency at the Cleveland Clinic. Corner of Griswald and Hermitage.

Beautiful timber frame model! Your gonna love the real thing.

[51 cub]

Nice!

Do you have land with timber? Get yourself a small sawmill and do it yourself!


I think I've mentioned it before here but forestry forum is an incredible place for information on a lot of different topics. I forget his last name but one of the moderators Jim is awesome with all these questions and more. He mine as well be an engineer. Good luck.


Not to be pushy, it's just a couple things I like together. Forestry Forum has both timberframe, and sawmill forums

[Ghs57]

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/bigschuss/Sugar%20Shack/P9110003.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/bigschuss/media/Sugar%20Shack/P9110003.jpg.html)

Very nice frame.




I do suggest to anyone who is building a post and beam either take a course or find someone to apprentice with, we did the latter as he helped us build the structure. You learn a ton from talking to individuals at leisure. You can learn a lot from books and videos but when you get stuck it is nice to have someone with experience to ask.
Mike

As a framer, I second Mike's suggestion. While you can build with minimal tools (1 1/2 & 2" chisel, mallet, drills and saw) you may be able to borrow some of the more specialized tools (mortiser, and any number of others). Your frame looks like it's based on the one in Jack Sobon's Timber Frame Construction book. Great book for the DIYer. Jack helped revive the trade back in the late 70's/early 80's, and is still very much active in frame building, restoration and teaching. If you follow his instructions, you'll have no problem. That's how I did my first frame. I was a purest then, even hand hewing my beams from my trees. In an effort to save time, it's different now. My shack is an addition to that first frame.

You are going to love the results.