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Polish Wizard
12-26-2015, 10:43 AM
This coming spring will be my first attempt at tapping trees ---- and hopefully boiling sap without too many catastrophes.
My plan is to tap only around 10 trees so I don't waste too much sap if my efforts don't work very well.

I read as many threads as I could find concerning the use of sap bags, and whether to buy factory bag holders or make them from PVC pipe.

I considered:
-using either 2 or 3 inch PVC pipe cut to 6" lengths with the appropriate hole(s) drilled for the spile,
-a coupling cut in half to make a stopper ring for each holder I'll build,
-a test cap to cover the top of the holder (prevent rain and stuff from entering),
-and a heavy-duty 14" wire tie to hold the bag onto this contraption.

Using Home Depot prices I calculate each holder will cost $1.22 and $2.06 respectively (2 and 3 inch), not including my labor, hole saw, and PVC glue already on my bench.

On the other hand I looked at the RMC Sugarbush website and see they offer two versions of the factory-made sap sack holders.
One called CDL costs $2.65 each, and the one called "New Sap Sack Holder" costs $4.25.

Can anyone explain the difference between the CDL and "New" sap sack holders that justifies the cost difference?
Are they both made of the same material, able to hold the same bag weight, and last equally long for years of service?
The "New" is shown as made in USA, so perhaps that is the difference.

For the minimal cost difference (and not knowing any other details) I'm leaning toward the CDL bag holders.
I question the ability to wrap and secure a bag around a relatively small piece of pipe, compared to the much larger surface of a factory bag holder. (This is why I considered using 3" pipe instead of 2")
Not to mention issues I read about when the bag contents are frozen and you want to dump through a small opening.

While I have your attention, I might as well ask if anyone knows the difference between clear and blue sap bags (other than one being a festive color).
Quick looks at various web sites don't show many details about bag thickness, capacity, or material (can one withstand abrasion, UV or temperature better than the other).

Any thoughts and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
I'm sure I'll have more questions about this entire process before we actually reach tap time.

ericjeeper
12-26-2015, 02:27 PM
Ok we are small producers in south central Indiana. We started out with milk jugs,buckets whatever. Then I broke down and bought some fancy sap sak holders. But last year I did not wish to fork out more money for them. So I ordered 100 two inch couplings on line.( much much cheaper than hardware store). The trick is getting good high quality zipties. I plan on building many more soon.
We do not cap them,caps add to cost. If you worry about bugs zip tie some nylon mesh window screen over the top.
I used some coated tie wire last year when we ran out of good zip ties.
As for bag color,have always used blue. No reason.
Briars are the number one enemy of the bags.. I prefer to take the bucket to the tree.
I generally buy my supplies from whomever offers the best price.. Beware of some of their exorbitant shipping charges.

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Rock Bottom Maple
12-26-2015, 02:54 PM
HI Last spring was my first year with sap sacks. DIY holders 8" piece of 1 1/2 inch pvc. With a 1 1/4 hole in side and a slot aroound bottom edge for the zip tye.
No covers on top. I filter going into my holding tank. I think I read blue saks will hold 3-4 gals???This system worked well for me.
12253

buckeye gold
12-26-2015, 03:00 PM
I use PVC 1 1/2" ( 5 inches long) with blue bags and get along fine. I don't need caps with the smaller pipe as very little rain gets in. I cut a groove around them with a grinding wheel about an inch and half from the bottom and zip tie the bags to them. Good quality zip ties will hold in the groove very well. Like eric said a piece of window screen will help with bugs; although, I don't use it. If I do anything I wrap a piece of aluminum foil over the top with a rubber band and lift it off when emptying bags. I hang them with #16 coated wire. I drill a small hole on each side and make a loop with the wire. I then run a short piece of tube into the bag. Ice is a problem, but in the blue bags it usually thaws by mid day. If ice gets bad enough just snip the tie and dump then reattach bag. I carry extra ties on my tractor and I can change a tie in about a minute or less. I do about 60 bags like this and run another 40-50 on buckets with tubing.

Polish Wizard
12-26-2015, 06:46 PM
For those of you choosing to use PVC pipe holders, what spouts are you using?
Any problem keeping the holders firmly on the spout?

Rock Bottom Maple
12-26-2015, 09:39 PM
I use leader tree saver 5/16 taps. With a 2-3 inch piece of tubing. They do not seem to swing as much in the wind. You can find pictures here and on YouTube. Showing good examples of these. Good luck.

buckeye gold
12-26-2015, 11:09 PM
I use 5/16 tree saver taps as well

ericjeeper
12-26-2015, 11:11 PM
Adding the length of tubing is a good tip. Thanks. I will try that this year.

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Polish Wizard
12-27-2015, 09:18 AM
I hate to admit, but I think I spent most of the day Saturday reading numerous threads and watching videos about my new hobby.
I think I remember reading posts mentioning drop tubes may freeze and stop your normal sap flow.
Look into this on this site before you decide to add tubes to a system you already know works.
A poster named Big_Eddy did a bit of a survey concerning plastic and metal spouts he installed on his trees, and tried to pay attention to which spouts froze and defrosted at which point of the daily sap run.
I don't believe he mentioned additional tubes on the spouts.

Polish Wizard
12-27-2015, 09:44 AM
To Rock Bottom Maple,


I use leader tree saver 5/16 taps. With a 2-3 inch piece of tubing. They do not seem to swing as much in the wind. You can find pictures here and on YouTube. Showing good examples of these. Good luck.

Since I'm still new to this site I'm not sure where or how to locate pictures of the system you mention.

buckeye gold
12-27-2015, 12:26 PM
I think I remember reading posts mentioning drop tubes may freeze and stop your normal sap flow.

I have used tubes into buckets and bags both for years and have not had any problems. If tubing is frozen so is the spout! In the bags I'm only using a short piece of 1-3 inches and it does not retain sap. As for buckets, I have run up to 36 inches to a bucket and have never seen one backed up and stopping flow. If they have ice it slips right out soon as the edges thaw.

Rock Bottom Maple
01-01-2016, 08:57 AM
12275This is the system I used. No problem with freezing. There are many diy versions of pvc holders
Out there. Search homemade equipment and on YouTube.
12274

heus
01-01-2016, 09:10 AM
I had terrible luck with the CDL holders. The spot welds on the rings that hold the bag are poor and they break apart very easily.

lpakiz
01-01-2016, 11:21 AM
A friend of mine made PVC holders, 2 inch? Anyway, he found that a cat food can fit just right over his pipe.

troynh
01-02-2016, 07:29 PM
Here's how I'm making the PVC holders:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6Vx80fZWI


Vinyl caps - http://www.mcmaster.com/#9753k21/=10igtxu
Stainless spouts - https://www.smokylakemaple.com/product/bucket-and-bag-spout/
Bags - http://www.rothsugarbush.com/product/sap-sak-bag/


-Tim

Big_Eddy
01-06-2016, 02:23 PM
Polish Wizard
For 10 trees - Find a retailer close by and buy whatever taps and holders are available to you and get your trees tapped. Don't overthink it.

I use buckets instead of sap sacks- so I have no inputs on which taps work best with sacks. I have no experience with sacks at all and have no plans to start using them.

I'm transitioning from 7/16 metal spiles to 5/16 plastic spiles in my bush. I'm willing to accept any early spring losses (slower thawing of frozen spiles) for the longer term benefits of smaller holes and the lower incidence of hole splitting. Some folks have had issues with the smaller taps loosening. I have found no difference in loosening between the 2. Both types will have some loosening, especially during periods with significant temperature swings.