2 by 6 patrick drop flu

[rayi]

I have a 2 by six the flu pan is 4 feet. The only problem I seem to have is the syrup pan sets too high and there is not enough sap to prevent burning if I run it as fast as I want. Question is there a way to left the flu pan about 1/2 inch without changing the plumbing

[n8hutch]

Assuming you are running it perfectly level . Only thing i can think of is if you set it up out of level, with the front of the Arch slightly lower than the back.

Not sure how that would effect performance.

[wiam]

Pictures of your plumbing would be helpful. I have seen a piece of 1/4" flat stock laid on the rail under the flue pan.

[SeanD]

I have a Phaneuf 2x6 drop flue. I run my depth well above the inlet/outlet pipes. That should give you at least an inch and a quarter in the first channel in the syrup pan. The last channel will be a bit lower. That's a safe depth, but anything below that is not a good idea.

I watch the cut-outs in the boxes where the liquid is not as turbulent. If I see daylight, I adjust my float, but generally I don't have to do that very often once I get in a rhythm.

As mentioned, check your level and check your float.

Sean

[Ryan Mahar]

Do you have 2 layers of insulative rail gasket under the flue and then only ONE layer under the syrup pan. That is how we were instructed to set up our 2x6 and have never had a problem.....So the back pan is just slightly higher than then syrup....

[SeanD]

Do you have 2 layers of insulative rail gasket under the flue and then only ONE layer under the syrup pan. That is how we were instructed to set up our 2x6 and have never had a problem.....So the back pan is just slightly higher than then syrup....

Are those instructions from Patrick or is that for any 2x6 drop?

[mellondome]

I have a Phaneuf 2x6 drop flue. I run my depth well above the inlet/outlet pipes. That should give you at least an inch and a quarter in the first channel in the syrup pan. The last channel will be a bit lower. That's a safe depth, but anything below that is not a good idea.

I watch the cut-outs in the boxes where the liquid is not as turbulent. If I see daylight, I adjust my float, but generally I don't have to do that very often once I get in a rhythm.

As mentioned, check your level and check your float.

Sean

Wow, you like the slow simmer.

I would not run my 2x6 over 3/4". (I run my pans shallower than this). You lose way too much evaporation with deep liquids.

If you like to run shallow for faster evaporation, look at switching to a raised flue. It will allow you to adjust the sap levels in the pans separately.

[Ryan Mahar]

Those are instuctions from leader for my 2x6 revolution, drop flue. Should be the same for your rig assuming you are using matching pans. If you have different style pans that were not sold as one unit than sounds like you have some customizing to do.............regarding depth, it also depends on the concentration of your sap. If RO'ing than you better run deeper. I run with the feed hole into the syrup pain at may 7/8th full when boiling 10-15% concentrate. When we were not RO'ing than we ran 1/2 full or slightly less............make sense?

[SeanD]

Mellon,
Good food for thought. Here's where it will really blow your mind - I just checked the pans and the top of the inlet hole is at 2" in the front pan! That's where I ran it all season. I consistently got 35 gph on the nose with every boil and that's what these pans are supposed to be rated for, so that's where I left it. True, it's about double the depth I ran when I had flat pans, but I got good results. I use dry hardwood and have a very good natural draft.

Ryan,
I have matching Phaneuf pans. Patrick didn't say anything about the rail gasket. My rail gasket is only about an 1/8" thick so I would only get that much benefit. Not sure it would be really worth the effort. Do you feel like you get a noticeable benefit in the back pan?

Sean

[mellondome]

I have a 2 by six the flu pan is 4 feet. The only problem I seem to have is the syrup pan sets too high and there is not enough sap to prevent burning if I run it as fast as I want. Question is there a way to left the flu pan about 1/2 inch without changing the plumbing

Rayi
I run my 2x6 at 1/2 inch in the front pan. Yes , you dont leave for dinner, but as long as the pan is level, you will be ok. You just have to pay closer attention to it while the gradient is forming so you dont make syrup in the middle
For a comfortable depth, i would stick close to 3/4 ". Over 1 inch and you start losing gph.

Sean,
The difference between 30-35gph and 45-50gph on a 2x6 is syrup depth and firing technique. 35 gph on a 2x6 is just mediocre. Most strive for at least 45gph without preheaters.

But to each their own.
I also run a dairy farm so my boiling time is limited.
I know guys who dont care how long it takes to boil, as long as friends are over and the cooler isnt empty.

[SeanD]

We all have things we're not doing while we watch water boil. 10+ more gph is worth a shot. I'll try out lower depths out this season. My main concern has been trashing some very expensive pans. I didn't want to introduce air into the plumbing between pans. The tops of the pipes connecting the pans are dropped down lower than the tops of the cutouts, so I actually have a little more room to play.

I've been better about taking smaller draws which helps with level in the front pan, but I still have problems with too much foam from time to time. The deeper level has saved me more than once. I'll experiment during the sweetening boil when things are a little less stressful and see how it goes. Thanks for the input.

Sean

[mellondome]

In your case, lowering the level will help with reducing the foam. Defoamer reduces surface tension. It resides on the surface of the sap. If you do not allow the surface to flow through the pan, the defoamer will not flow through from float box to draw off.

Also, the deeper the liquid, the higher the foam can rise.

[Ryan Mahar]

I can't tell you if it's noticeable as it is how we were advised on setting it up when we first got the rig 10 years ago. Made sense though since you want a little help from gravity to get the back pan to feed the front. I believe this is only advised for little rigs like the 2x6's. Bigger units, due to weight of sap in the pans/SA etc , will not be influenced by a the extra 1/8 thick gasket. It's pretty easy to slip in an extra layer under the back pan so I think it would be worth trying and the cost is probably <$10 of gasket...........We always boiled off 50 GPH or a little more with our rig, so regarding depth, I think you can go a little shallower. Also, are you finishing on your rig or separately on a finishing stove? Using the finishing stove trick, although can lead to more time in the sugarhouse, allows you to go through sap alot faster on the evaporator , drawing off at 214-16. Less sugar sand build up and much less chance of burning up the syrup pan!!! I think it gives you a better, more consistent end product as well, as you are only finishing small batches that are controlled better on the finishing stoves. But that's a whole other topic!!

[SeanD]

In your case, lowering the level will help with reducing the foam. Defoamer reduces surface tension. It resides on the surface of the sap. If you do not allow the surface to flow through the pan, the defoamer will not flow through from float box to draw off.

Also, the deeper the liquid, the higher the foam can rise.

That might explain my problems with foam despite using it consistently. I've taken to using it in the front pan as well.

I'll have to go back and measure the pans' plumbing. Since it is dropped down lower in the boxes, having a liquid depth lower than the top of the pipe will be REALLY low in the pan (I think). I remember when Patrick dropped off the pans, he made a point of saying don't run it below the pipe level. I'll reach out to him and double-check with him.

I finish on the evaporator, so that increases my risk factors, but the gph you guys are getting is motivation for me to go a little closer to the edge. If it was just a few gph it wouldn't be worth it. Thanks again.

[mellondome]

That might explain my problems with foam despite using it consistently. I've taken to using it in the front pan as well.

I'll have to go back and measure the pans' plumbing. Since it is dropped down lower in the boxes, having a liquid depth lower than the top of the pipe will be REALLY low in the pan (I think). I remember when Patrick dropped off the pans, he made a point of saying don't run it below the pipe level. I'll reach out to him and double-check with him.

I finish on the evaporator, so that increases my risk factors, but the gph you guys are getting is motivation for me to go a little closer to the edge. If it was just a few gph it wouldn't be worth it. Thanks again.

It is all in how you manage your boiling. I finish on the evaporator ( usually try for just slightly over - easier to thin out than boil off ). I feed it with 18% from the r/o, and run 1/2 " deep. If there is a lot going on, I will bump it to 3/4". Just slowly lower the level . Dont just jump from 2" to 3/4.

Early draw off and finish later uses a lot more fuel, time, and makes a darker product. Why not finish with the efficiency of your evaporator? I run a finish pan, but it is to veryfy density ( add permeate if necessary) and heat for filtering(batch filtering through press).

But as I stated earlier... to each their own. That is what makes this hobby/addiction/business different for every one of us.

[Ryan Mahar]

Hey guys,

I don't want to go off on a tangent, so accept my apology for slightly changing the topic of the original question, but.....my advice has been based on my previous sugaring experiences on our 2x6. Love that rig. But more taps has taken me to a larger rig. I will be making more syrup this year and am concerned about my old finishing ways of 2 stages. But mellondome, I like your advice on finishing as close to possible on evap then canning off on a finishing stove. I think I will end up doing it this way. Working alone, the 2 stage finishing is a lot less stressful as you can only focus on so many things at once in the sugarhouse, and keeping my evaporator happy and not scorched is priority one. So drawing off, filting, canning all at once was too much for me. But with larger rig this year, I think I am kind of doing the same thing as you are suggesting, just drawing off near or at syrup. Then later on heating to temp, checking density, filtering and canning!! Does that sound right?

[marlmucker]

That might explain my problems with foam despite using it consistently. I've taken to using it in the front pan as well.

I'll have to go back and measure the pans' plumbing. Since it is dropped down lower in the boxes, having a liquid depth lower than the top of the pipe will be REALLY low in the pan (I think). I remember when Patrick dropped off the pans, he made a point of saying don't run it below the pipe level. I'll reach out to him and double-check with him.

I finish on the evaporator, so that increases my risk factors, but the gph you guys are getting is motivation for me to go a little closer to the edge. If it was just a few gph it wouldn't be worth it. Thanks again.

Hi Sean

I was just wondering if you asked Patrick about the level and what he said. I've had my 2x4 from him for two season's and always kept it just at the top of the cutout you are talking about, maybe slightly under.