First time with gravity

[KReinisch]

I have a set of woods this year where I am going to run some tubing on gravity. It is a pretty steep slope, probably 100 feet from the first tree to the collection site. I want to put around 200 plus taps using 1 inch main line and 5/16 laterals. I was reading about only putting 5 taps per laterial... can I get away with 10-15. The slope is pretty good... also is there a rule of thumb to how many taps per main line.

[unc23win]

It is a good goal to strive for five taps per lateral. Maybe at first you don't do it that way it really depends on how you set up your mainlines. If you install more mainlines then it is easier to run shorter laterals and much easier to get no more than 5 taps on each. When you are starting out things will add up fast and you will probably be looking to save some $ and that is completey understandable.

The ideal set up would be
1. Mainlines every 50-100 feet
2. Lateral lines shorter than 100' (the shorter the better)
3. No more than 5 taps per lateral

As far as mainline in a gravity set up www.leaderevaporator.com gives numbers for the number of taps for gravity and I think they are pretty good estimates. Just click on the size and read the description. You might want 3/4", but I wouldn't go any smaller than that though. You can easily get less taps per lateral later by installing more saddles.

[WESTMAPLES]

the only thing i will add is with a slope like you have 3/16 tubing maybe worth a try to get even better sap numbers. i personally have zero experience with 3/16 as my bushes have low slope, but with your slope it maybe worth it. good luck with whichever you choose

[MISugarDaddy]

Another benefit of using the 3/16" versus 5/16" is that you can have 15 taps per lateral. That would save you having to increase the number of laterals later to achieve the 5 taps per lateral that is recommended.

[KReinisch]

So in the case of a 100 foot lateral run you would only have 5 taps? that seems like a lot of waist.. I have a bunch of trees clumped together... I know I would have more that that.

[WESTMAPLES]

that why myself and MI pointed out the 3/16 option because you can create vacuum with 30 feet of downhill slope after your last tap on each lateral line and you can do 10-15 taps pre lateral as pointed out in 3/16 threads. 5/16 creates no vac unless you have a vac pump on that tubing system

[Super Sapper]

With the 3/16 you can run 25 to 30 taps per run.

[eustis22]

What's a lateral?

[maple flats]

A lateral is the small tubing that runs from tree to tree, the taps attach to a drop (line) and tee into the lateral. It sure sounds like you want 3/16 tubing. For the ultimate production using no pump you want to use 3/16. Run 3/16 with up to 30 taps for everything. In fact Dr. Tim said the testing has shown good results with up to 35 taps on a single 3/16 line. With what you describe, all the trees above the 30-35' elevation will get near 29" vacuum, those below that will get less, but still get some. The figure is 1" of vacuum for slightly over each foot of drop, so a tap with 10' drop still gets almost 10" vacuum and you never need to turn the pump on or off, gravity works all the time, but you do want to keep up on fixing any leaks.

[KReinisch]

What size main line should I use?

[BreezyHill]

KR,
Focus on what Maple flats has said. With 100' of elevation drop you want to go 3/16 on a gravity system to produce natural vacuum from the sap running down hill. Strive for the 30 tap count and visit UVM web site for even more information and research results.

5-3 taps on gravity is wasteful and less productive. This is mechanical vacuum design criteria.

Be very diligent on checking and repairing leaks to keep the vacuum up.

Production increases gor a vacuum level of 15" from gravity is 150% and 3-5% for every inch increase there after.

I would use 3/4" main on steep slope to the collection point since the higher the slope the greater your gallons per hour flow. Rating for 3/4" is 195 g/h at 2% and 336 g/h at 6%. 100 taps at peak flow for high vac is rated at 220 g/h. Steep slope on a road is over 15% and a 3/4" will carry 549 g/h at that slope.

1" at 2% is 330 g/h

There is a night and day difference between natural and mechanical vacuum design so try to keep them straight.

God has blessed you with slope so I suggest you make sap with it. :lol:

Ben

[KReinisch]

Just an idea.... what about just running multiple 3/16 lines to a gathering tank with 25-30 taps on each.

[BlueberryHill]

That is what I do with my 3/16. Each line has 25-30 and each line runs into it's own plastic drum. It works great. Perfect for where I am situated. I have another area I hope to set up soon and I think I will be incorporating some mainline in order to be able to have 1 central gathering tank. All depends on your specific situation.

[KReinisch]

Do you use 55 gallon drums?

[eustis22]

That's MY plan...I have two (2) 100' lines to the base of my hill I will run into a 55 gallon drum and then a pipe to drain into my haul tank up the driveway (it remains to be seen if this will work).

[BlueberryHill]

Do you use 55 gallon drums? Yes. I cut the tops off so they are easy to clean out.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

3/4" mainline should be good for up to 1,000 taps on 3/16, possibly more. As far as laterals, I would try to keep max taps to 25 per line. If you have to go more then that, then it will work, but may start seeing a decrease in gpt but 25 is a good number for a max.

[KReinisch]

Last question... do you need to put a vacuum gauge on the line?

[optionguru]

You don't have to but it's helpful to diagnose if there are any leaks.

[5050racing]

12250I don't know a lot but installed 3/16 run last year and there r certain ways to connect the drop to the 3/16 each tap use's it own tee to work correct,I spoke with Shawn at DG maple supply in VT. and went thru every piece i needed to do it right! he was very helpful and boy does that set up really work,this year replacing all my other runs with 3/16 and you can run it 700' or more they tell me.sorry the program will not let me rotate pic??

[eustis22]

ok, I'm a little stuck because I am unclear on the terminology but I want to run the terminus of my 3/16 line into a barrel at the base of the hill. the Cap I want the line to go into has 3/4" male npt threaded fitting. Is it possible to find a fitting with a 3.16 barb or do I have to set up a reducing coupling/adapter between the cap and the tube? with barbed fitting I can maintain the tension on the tube all the way in. Or is there an alternative method I'm missing?

[WESTMAPLES]

when i used barrels, i would pop out the hole in the center of the cap (where the threads are ) and buy a reducing coupling then thread it in and then a 6 way star head into that or just a single half inch coupler for my mainline depending on location. tractor supply has a whole section with nylon type fitting of all shapes and sizes, probly the easiest way to make it work.

[maplemas]

I always put in a connector or tee close to the barrel ..this gave me some where to tie a string to on the tubing allowing me just to use the bung hole with out any special fittings

[eustis22]

is it ok to wrap the 3/16 lateral AROUND a support tree? Does that cause the tube to compress and cut off the flow?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

No reason to wrap 3/16 tubing completely around the tree 360 degrees. Just need to go around which ever side of tree gives you the most support. At the end of the line where it goes into your barrell, just use some black 1/4" hollow core rope.

[KReinisch]

Can you put a lateral into another lateral. For instance... I have a long run with 10 taps but there are some other trees off that line. Can I run a line to them to pick up a few more?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Proctor doesn't recommend it but I did on one line last year that was about 600' and probably has about 20 taps. About 5 of the taps are off a "T" about 100' from the top. Seemed to work pretty good but it is next to the top where there are just a few taps, not way down the line. It was that or run a 5oo to 600 feet line for 5 taps and have 15 on the other line next to it.

[sugarsand]

We will on occasion go to a lone tree or two using a "long drop line". For some reason doing this with a lateral isn't good, but if you call it a drop line then that makes a difference. When we've done this it seemed to work fine, long as you keep it to 1 or 2 taps and keep them higher so there is good slope to the lateral.

sugarsand

[derekp]

I have a 5/16 gravity run of 200' with 20 taps on it and I get natural vaccum coming into my mainline. Prob not as good as 3/16 but it still pulls through pretty good. Ill try to upload the video. This is with a vented 3/4 mainline. What is everyone thoughts on venting mainline when it comes to gravity systems??

Sent from my SM-N910R4 using Tapatalk

[KReinisch]

Do you have to have 30 feet of tubing after your last tap?

[psparr]

Do you have to have 30 feet of tubing after your last tap?

No, it's just ideal.

[BreezyHill]

Do you have to have 30 feet of tubing after your last tap?

30' of tubing is not the desired 30' of drop that is desired for natural vacuum formation after the last tap.

Venting the mainline means you are drawing in contaminated air that will have bacteria with in.

[KReinisch]

12324

More questions... I drew a sketch of my gravity fed system. I have the main line running directly down the hill/slope and I have all the laterals running down the hill and then into the main. I thought this was the best way for me to get as many trees as I could. Everything runs down hill so I think Ill be ok. Any thoughts?

[lpakiz]

Another recommended practice is to run the laterals into the mainline from one direction only. This allows you to walk or drive along the mainline, for leak detection, and for access with a tractor, 4-wheeler or other equipment for mainline maintenance and tree and wood removel.
I suspect from your sketch, that you have a ravine or valley, so this is not as practical. If access was a major priority, you might run 2 parallel mainlines, wide enough for the tractor or as wide as the tree placement allows. In any case, keep the max lateral length to 100 feet or less. You can skimp on saddles now, and add more later to decrease the taps per lateral ratio.

If you want to see how this might look, run the proposed main(s) and laterals with string or twine. You might be surprised at how much you will adjust your initial route. It allows you to see how close or far the first tree is on each saddle, and move the mainline accordingly. And, strive to keep the lines as straight as practical.
For vacuum, the more saddles, the better, from a vacuum level standpoint. Not necessarily from a $$$ standpoint, however. I have 86 saddles for 200 taps, so you can see that I value short lats and not many taps per lat.

[BreezyHill]

12324
Any thoughts?

I would go to Tim Wilmonts info on 3/16 gravity systems. There is info on number of taps per line on natural vac. I have not read all of this so I would strongly suggest reading this to familiarize yourself with the info prior to setting up the bush. As I recall 25 taps per line is a high target number. Mechanical vacuum is when fewer is best( 3-5),for highest production.

I like the twine idea...provided you have time. It is very nice to be able to get a machine along the mainline; even if only to pack the deep snow like last season. I leave the down hill side open for this purpose and for maintance trails through the bush.

We had 12' of snow in one part of the bush. It was to be retubed this summer but I am having to redesign the tubing lay out to accommodate the potential snow.
I am think that that line will have several isolation valves to open as tapping is done. Hate to not tap all those nice trees on the hedge row.

[KReinisch]

The slope in this bush wont allow for any machinery. At least not safely. It is also not that big. A lot of trees concentrated in about 4 acres at most. Like I said before... It all on a hill. Do any of you guys have your main line going down the hill like mine. Mine pretty much splits the hill in half.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Do you have to have 30 feet of tubing after your last tap?

No, any drop you have will get you vacuum. I run to mainline and trees at bottom I pick up it is only 2 or 3 feet. Won't get as much vacuum but some of those I could run 1000' more feet along side mainline and not get nearly 30' so would be pointless.