Aof/auf

[derekp]

Has anyone looked into using a blower that comes with kids bouncy houses?don't think it's quite enough for AOF but it may be stronger than squirrel cage blowers...pretty cheap to buy too

[n8hutch]

I think there are some that would work just fine for aof. Home depot sells some online that are like 450 to 500 cfm that are high pressure blowers for pretty short money, I think 500 CFM would be plenty for A 2x6. Did you decide what pans to go with?

[derekp]

I picked up one of those bouncy house blowers..not sure what the cfms are as there's not much info on the sticker other than voltage and watts..did some research and found that it is a .62 hp motor...and the motor is encased with plastic so I can't see any specifics..it puts out a lot of air tho..I'm leaning towards Jims high output drop flue pan set..spend the money once and be done...I love the hybrid but I can get a bit more gph out of the high output set which is gunna be needed...gunna be able to add a bunch of trees where I am at within the next 5-10 years...have 350 ish ready in one bush and 100 in another already set up..

[n8hutch]

I would guess that blower would be in the 5 to 600 cfm range, only thing that would concern me is durability, you don't want something that is going to burn up on you mid season. It should work for Air over fire.

You'll love Smoky Lake pans, some of my friends in town bought a 2x6 silver plate raised flue from Jim this summer after seeing my pans last spring. His Floats work nicely also.

[RileySugarbush]

I replaced my Dayton radial vane HP blower with a Koala bounce hose blower last year. It has much higher static pressure with less electrical power. I reduced the nozzle size to get similar velocity with less air volume. Much improved performance. These are designed for continuous use, like in, say, and bounce house.

I am happy with my choice, and I can't see the green and yellow plastic because it is inclosed in a blower box that I use for noise control and flow regulation with an inlet damper.

[Sugarmaker]

That sounds like a blower that would work. Bounce houses run for hours. I choose to use hot tub blowers, kind of similar idea.
I think I used about 1 or 1.5 hp units. Mounted them outside under the eves and piped the air in with 3 inch plastic. Use 1 for the steam away and one for the AOF.
Regards,
Chris

[derekp]

Got the bouncy house blower piped into the sugarhouse today..waiting for my valve to come in and for the firebox manifold to be finished to hook up the rest of my aof
122091221012211

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[wiam]

E
I replaced my Dayton radial vane HP blower with a Koala bounce hose blower last year. It has much higher static pressure with less electrical power. I reduced the nozzle size to get similar velocity with less air volume. Much improved performance. These are designed for continuous use, like in, say, and bounce house.

I am happy with my choice, and I can't see the green and yellow plastic because it is inclosed in a blower box that I use for noise control and flow regulation with an inlet damper.

Do you have specs or a link to the blower you used? What hp?

[RileySugarbush]

1 hp.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-Air-KP-1200-1-HP-Koala-Inflatable-Blower-/191575835049?hash=item2c9acf41a9:g:OOsAAOSw~bFWG41 d (http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-Air-KP-1200-1-HP-Koala-Inflatable-Blower-/191575835049?hash=item2c9acf41a9:g:OOsAAOSw~bFWG41 d)

[wiam]

Thank you John

[mellondome]

I used a 4" 1hp shop dust collector from harbor freight for aof. Was under $90.

[derekp]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151228/e259c5fa9e3861756009d5a6196b4108.jpg
Got the whole AOF manifold in today!!

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[Sugarmaker]

Looks good!
Regards,
Chris

[derekp]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151229/4432f0f5f3ae820995500678712b56ba.jpg

There she sits...ready to roll!!Now just waiting on Smoky Lake to do their magic! Thanks everyone for the help and advice. Can't wait to fire it up!

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[AGR1093]

Could you take a picture of how you insulated the front and the door? Just curious...

[derekp]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160110/fe48c942823e0f4885031eff6a4f93a1.jpg

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[derekp]

A few years ago i acquired a huge roll of stainless steel screen which I have been using everywhere around the sugarhouse...what I did for the arch front was basically sandwich ceramic blanket between the castiron and the screen. For the door, I did the same thing but fastened the screen and blanket to the door with a few bolts..not sure how long it will all hold up, but I'm gunna try it for this year and see

[johnallin]

I like that idea. I used a 1/8" steel plate and it's almost all
melted away.

[Polish Wizard]

Looks like a great set-up.

Since your pipe is below the grate, would that be AUF (air under fire) instead of AOF (air over fire)?

Is the black fan and associated pipe in your photo being replaced with the new fan, or is that black one used for another purpose?

I have the guts from an old bathroom ceiling fan. The fan and motor assembly were replaced due to noise predicting eventual failure.
I'd like to use this for my evaporator (basically a barrel stove configuration).
Can you tell me what size black pipe you decided would work, and the size of holes you drilled?

[derekp]

Yes. I have air over fire and air under...the small fan is hooked to 1" pipe that goes under the grates. Not sure if it will be enough for auf since I haven't tested it yet. Still waiting forr my pan to come in. The yellow blower is hooked up to a manifold with nozzles for AOF that sits 6" below the pan. This is 2"x3" box iron. The AUF is 1" iron pipe with 1/4" holes in it.

[Ghs57]

I'm doing a similar setup for my 2x6, but I don't weld. Using pipe for the AOF. Not sure which diameter though. UVM says 2" for 2x6. Can't find that locally. Can find 1.5 though. Hope that's enough.

[Polish Wizard]

I found this 36 page thread from 2010 and find it interesting reading, although I'm only on page 23.
http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?9364-Air-over-fire

I didn't realize small pipes in derekp's photos were discharges for AOF plumbing until I looked through the thread I just added.
I thought he only had AUF based on the obvious black iron pipe below the grate.
I'm new to all this stuff, so it's a learning experience every time I log in.

[derekp]

12636
12637
Arrived today!!

[BRL]

Looks awesome!

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Can we see a picture of how the PVC pipe transitions to metal pipe and then into the arch? Thanks.

[derekp]

12893

The 1" pipes that I had for the auf with the small squirrel cage blower just wasn't enough..I ended up hooking the auf into the high pressure line but then reduced from 3" to 2". I ran both auf and aof wide open today and had great results...stack temp was the lowest that I had in 5 years. I could hold my hand right next to it at full boil. There was no smoke as well...I was getting some sparks coming out the stack so I may be able to tone back the auf a bit for better control of that.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Nice work. So it looks like AOF has flexible pipe. I'm definitely going to have to add this to my setup for next season.

[JDP]

Hey guys, I have installed AUF for a 2X5 oil tank evaporator. Does anyone know if the flue size really matters when you have forced air? I have plenty of 6 inch chimney but would have to buy 8 or 10 if it matters. Im sure a natural draft would reguire larger than 6 inch but with AUF forced into the rig "I THINK" 6 inch will be fine?

Any experience here?

[derekp]

12898

The dryer vent pipe is what I used to transition from pvc to my aof manifold...my manifold is 2"x3" box iron with small piece of 3" pipe welded to the bottom that comes through the sheet metal of the evap, as you can see in the photo...

[RileySugarbush]

Hey guys, I have installed AUF for a 2X5 oil tank evaporator. Does anyone know if the flue size really matters when you have forced air? I have plenty of 6 inch chimney but would have to buy 8 or 10 if it matters. Im sure a natural draft would reguire larger than 6 inch but with AUF forced into the rig "I THINK" 6 inch will be fine?

Any experience here?

The disadvantage of having a small stack on forced air is that the actual pressure in the arch will be a bit higher, possibly resulting in ash blowing out seams and gaps.
If your arch is truly air tight, no big deal.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Well I think I am going to go for it and install AOF. Is a 1/2 HP pump enough for a 2x4 or should pay $30 extra for a 1HP?

[RileySugarbush]

Well I think I am going to go for it and install AOF. Is a 1/2 HP pump enough for a 2x4 or should pay $30 extra for a 1HP?

I am using
[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica neue]



http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/OOsAAOSw~bFWG41d/s-l64.jpg




[TABLE="class: vi-centerclass"]
[TR]

[CENTER]In my 2x6. Perhaps a smaller unit will work for you. I like the higher pressure of the this unit. Make sure your nozzles are small enough to develop high pressure and therefore high jet velocity without too much air volume. That is the key!

[Urban Sugarmaker]

In my 2x6. Perhaps a smaller unit will work for you. I like the higher pressure of the this unit. Make sure your nozzles are small enough to develop high pressure and therefore high jet velocity without too much air volume. That is the key!

Thank you. Since I plan on a 2x6 sometime in the future I'll get the bigger 1/2 hp blower. The UVM plan says to use 3/8" pipe for the nozzles.

[RileySugarbush]

Thank you. Since I plan on a 2x6 sometime in the future I'll get the bigger 1/2 hp blower. The UVM plan says to use 3/8" pipe for the nozzles.

Sorry, but not everything I passed in my message was included. I use the 1 HP blower with good success.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Sorry, but not everything I passed in my message was included. I use the 1 HP blower with good success.

What's the best way to mate the blower to the 3" pvc pipe?

[Chicopee Sap Shack]

I used a fernco


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[Urban Sugarmaker]

I used a fernco


I'm familiar with those, but it be nice to see a picture. I will post a pic of the blower when I can but it's the same as the one RileySugarbush posted below.

[BRL]

Here's a pic of one Urban

13094

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Yes I know what that is but it doesn't look like its straightforward to attach. See pic. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160217/8814cd05ba9e322890bae2969daea283.jpg

The discharge is a bit larger than the outside diameter of the pipe. The 2 flange halves are what's provided and 3" PVC is a little too large to fit inside it. Obviously, it's set up for standard bounce house applications.

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[JDP]

I'm a plumber by trade. That fernco is pretty flexible and should be able to adequately by compressed down with the gear clamp to 2.5 inches. You could also get the old cheaper ( well they used to be) mechanical connector with the stainless steel over the rubber. They adjust within a half to 3/4 inch under size as well.

[BRL]

Yes I know what that is but it doesn't look like its straightforward to attach. See pic. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160217/8814cd05ba9e322890bae2969daea283.jpg

The discharge is a bit larger than the outside diameter of the pipe. The 2 flange halves are what's provided and 3" PVC is a little too large to fit inside it. Obviously, it's set up for standard bounce house applications.

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Can you take the yellow piece off of the fan and mount fernco to that?

[JDP]

For sure as long as the fernco will go over the diameter of the flange.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Can you take the yellow piece off of the fan and mount fernco to that?

Yes, as long as I can remove the special tamper-resistant screws that are holding the flange on. May be time to buy a set of drivers for this type of screw head since they keep showing up in my projects.

[JDP]

Harbour freight has the adapters for all those funny torx and other screw heads. There is about 20 sizes and types in the box. Only about $20.00. Here in Canada' Princess Auto is similar in products and pricing!

[Ghs57]

I have a similar fan, and was planning on removing the exhaust screen (with the torx screws - by just grinding a slot in them), taking a 4" PVC end cap with a 2" or so hole cut in the end, and screwing that in where the torx screws were. Then reducing that down to the 2" PVC running to the AUF/AOF. But I like the Fernco idea. That would also damp some of the vibrations from the fan. It might also be cheaper; those PVC fitting add up.

My fan does not have the 2 piece yellow funnel like part, but otherwise looks the same.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Make sure your nozzles are small enough to develop high pressure and therefore high jet velocity without too much air volume. That is the key![/CENTER]

My manifold nozzles were 3/8" inside diameter. I was having problems with a lot of sparks coming out of the stack and no real decrease in stack temp. The combustion seemed much more vigorous with NO smoke, so that's a plus.

Today I tapped the nozzles and inserted nipples with 1/4" ID. Hopefully this will solve the sparks and stack temp. I think with the larger nozzles there was plenty of turbulence but way too much air moving through. I will test again Sunday.

[Ghs57]

Silly Questions: Now that I have my AOF/AUF installed, and have fired a few times, What should I be looking for or doing the set it correctly? I installed a stack thermometer, but it's registering very low, only a few hundred degrees. I can feel the air from all the nozzles and from under the grates. The fire seems to be raging and quite hot, but the pan does not seem the boil any differently, and the wood burns just as fast, if not faster. I did not notice any sparks, and I'm not sure about the smoke, as it has been after dark when I boiled. The nozzles are 3/8 inch as recommended by the UVM paper. Could that be too big? Also I notice that my old draft/damper does not completely close. so some air may also be coming in under the fire.

Any suggestions?

[Ghs57]

After a series of boils with my new AUF/AOF, I can report that it has successfully met its objectives. It took some time to find the acceptable settings and see the results. I may still may not have the optimum damper settings, but I have observed an intense fire, turbulence in the combustion chamber, no smoke or sparks (14 ft of stack), and a stack average temperature of 400 degrees. Refueling was done every 6:15 minutes. There was no change to the amount of wood consumption, but the boil was more intense; therefore, the sessions were shorter. Running without forced air resulted in noticeable quantities of smoke, along with the smell of a raw fire.

Should there be any more sap runs here this season, I will continue to refine my process.