2x8 Arch Build

[DocsMapleSyrup]

I started a thread last week about AOF/AUF and had a lot of help from this community. Thank you. I've now started my arch build and have gleaned a lot of information from other people's builds. Attached are some photos of the arch. I have three days into the build. I'm not very efficient and not a great welder but am making progress.

I have purchased the 3/8" threaded black pipe for the AOF and went to buy a tap as I am planning on tapping my AOF rails. Found out that a 3/8" NPT thread tap is not the same as the 3/8" threaded pipe. Does anyone know what size tap I need? Thanks in advance.

I'm using a combination of 2x2 and 2x3 angle. 2x2 tube (AOF), 3x3 tube (door frame) and 2x4 tube to bring the initial air into the firebox before splitting it and running down the side in the 2x2 tubing. I am bringing AOF into the door frame to help keep it cooler.

Comments, suggestions, and questions welcome.

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[Zucker Lager]

Hey Feychad:
What you need is a "Pipe tap" in 3/8 that will give you a connection that the pipe going into it will have a 3/8 inch inside diameter. standard machine thread 3/8 inch tap is a straight thread about 3/8 inch OD and that is what you might have gotten? but a pipe tap has a 7 degree taper in its run that allows it to seal or lock up. The pipe, male, end is a corresponding opposite taper so the two come together and lock up or seal. Just google "Pipe tap" and that should do it for you. I would guess that the OD of a 3/8 pipe tap is around 1/2 inch? Jay

[Super Sapper]

3/8 NPT (National Pipe Thread) is what you need if using a standard pipe nipple.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

Thanks for the info. For a while, I was thinking I might have to weld them in but would like to be able to swap them out if needed in the future. I'll check the web. Rather than looking it up online, I spent some time running around to different stores in the area thinking this would be easy to find. Not so.

[nymapleguy607]

I had the same idea when I built my arch, I ended up just welding 1/2" tubing for nozzles. If you cover them with some type of insulation they will last quite a long time. If I had to guess I would say the nozzles would most likely break off if you ever tried to remove them to replace them after they have burned down.

[BRL]

Here is a tap and Die set

http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/tap-die/6-piece-pipe-tap-die-set-91395.html

[RIVERWINDS]

NPT tap holes should be reamed using a tapered reamer prior to tapping.

I just welded 3/8" NPT half couplings to my AOF tubing. If I ever have problems I figure I can cut the half couplings off and replace them. They should be about a buck or less for the half couplings, I think mcmaster shows 1.13 each if you don't have any plumbing supply stores nearby.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

I appreciate the help. thanks..

[DocsMapleSyrup]

I've got a firebox question? On my 2x8 arch build, the firebox section is 25" x 57". I'm going to have 2" of blanket with 2" thick firebrick all around so the finished floor size will be 19" x 49" How long of grating would you put in?

[nymapleguy607]

I've got a firebox question? On my 2x8 arch build, the firebox section is 25" x 57". I'm going to have 2" of blanket with 2" thick firebrick all around so the finished floor size will be 19" x 49" How long of grating would you put in?

Answering a question with a question, What are you planning to use for grates? In my arch I drilled split brick firebricks originally I had 3 sets of brick with 3 holes in each brick, there were 4 bricks wide on the bottom total of 36 holes. I have since gone to only 2 sets of brick with 3 holes each totaling 24 holes. Holes are 3/4" dia. 3" apart.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

I'm planning on using 4" sewer pipe split in half and drilled with holes to bring in air at different angles to increase turbulence. Why did you cut down on the number of holes in the bottom firebrick. Maybe that would be easier for me to do. I still have options.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

I ended up changing my grates. No more sewer pipe. I found out it's too hard to cut and drill. I ended up using 2x2 angle
V side open at top with AUF coming up through the grates and out the holes I'm drilling in the firebrick.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Firebrick are much easier to drill 3/4 hole if you drill 3/8 hole first.

[wiam]

Firebrick are much easier to drill 3/4 hole if you drill 3/8 hole first.

What kind of drill and bit?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have a 1/2" Bosch hammer drill and it drilled a bunch on hammer and never broke any several years ago.

[wiam]

I have a Bosch Bulldog. Takes Ed bits. Drilled a 1/2" hole last night no problem

[Sugarmaker]

Folks,
Another option for grates.
Local syrup equipment supplier built these.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee170/Sugarmaker/arch%20grates%2011-18-14/DSC03089.jpg

By the way the arch your building looks good and I think you have welded a thing or two before tackling this arch?
Regards,
Chris

[DocsMapleSyrup]

That is one complex grate. Holy cow. I couldn't imagine cutting and welding that thing. Here are a couple photos from when I wrapped it up last night.
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[DocsMapleSyrup]

Does anyone know how to attach the Buyers trailer door mechanisms that fit in the end of the 3/4 inch black pipe. They are made out of pot metal and the black pipe is of course steel. Can it be MIG welded? What are others doing or have done? Thanks.

[n8hutch]

I think most are drilled and bolted, that's how mine is

[lpakiz]

I think I drilled a couple of 1/2 inch holes in each end of the black pipe and plug welded them.

[OldManMaple]

Google search brought up this link http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200326969_200326969?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Automotive%20%3E%20Truck%20Boxes&utm_campaign=Buyers%20Products&utm_content=332321&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=332321&gclid=CIawu-uh-MkCFcEWHwod5eICbAThe
Scroll down to Q&A's

handle on this Buyers door lock kit attaches to a buckle with a pin, the buckle is welded to the vertical rod.
Do you have a "Buckle" that fits the end of the rod?

[DocsMapleSyrup]

OldManMaple:
The buckle they are referring to is what comes attached to the handle. The ends are what have no way to attach them to the pipe.

I probably will either drill and put a bolt through them or possibly a roll pin or drill and plug weld. I know there are some solders out there that will work but they are expensive for such a small job. I don't know if regular silver solder would work or not.

[nymapleguy607]

I think most are drilled and bolted, that's how mine is
I might welded mine. I just took a wire wheel to them before to clean off the galvanizing.

[OldManMaple]

I looked at the one on my wells cargo trailer and it's welded

[lpakiz]

I was thinking, too, that the "welding problem" was galvanizing on the material, not necessarily pot metal. Those pieces are probably cast iron, covered with galvanizing, which will not weld worth a hoot until you grind or burn off the coating.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

Thanks guys. I ended up drilling and putting in a roll pin which I didn't like so I removed it, re-drilled and then plug welded it in place which worked very well. I hadn't ever done that before but it is held tightly and looks good. I do think the problem was the galvanizing on the metal which I didn't think about until Ipakiz mentioned it. Being a weekend warrior for welding is fun but I'm not that knowledgible so thanks for the input.

[lpakiz]

nymapleguy first mentioned galvanizing in post 24, so he gets the credit.
You might want to file away the "plug welding" technique in your mind. This works well in different scenarios, such as fastening a thin sheet to heavier flat or angle iron. Drill holes in the thin sheet, then plug weld thru the thin sheet holes, onto the heavier base.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

That is a great idea Ipakiz! I was having significant difficulty getting tack welding to hold between some 3/16" angle iron framing and 20 gauge sheeting for an access door to the motors under the arch. Thanks.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

Update on the build. I welded the nuts to hold threaded rod for the insulation tonight. I slid a bunch of nuts on the threaded rod. Then tack welded the one at the end, unscrewed the rod, moved the next nut to the end of the rod and welded it. I went pretty fast that way. I also have an access panel on the right side of the unit the will be on hinges to access the area where the AOF and AUF fans will sit and I painted that this evening. I am hoping to start cleaning things up and painting the rest of the arch in the next couple of days. I do need to get the stainless tack welded into place but will be picking that up later in the week. Lots of little details but coming along.

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[nymapleguy607]

You'll have to refresh my memory, did you decide to use 2 blowers or just 1 ? Looking at your grates, you might need to swap a set of drilled brick to solids if it acts like you have too much air coming under the fire.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

I am using two fans. The AUF is a squirrel cage 550cfm and the AOF is a 1/2 hp running 3450 rpm.

[lpakiz]

nymapleguy, and feychad,
A light bulb just went on in my mind.
I had heard of using drilled bricks for AUF grates, but had never considered that the amount of air could be so easily adjusted, just by swapping more or less drilled or solid bricks.
I wonder how many years behind I am, to have that finally dawn on me?
And feychad, brilliant idea on how to hold each nut while welding. I placed each nut and held it down with an old screwdriver.

[Sugarmaker]

The build is looking good! What is the stainless that needs to be tacked in place?
Regards,
Chris

[DocsMapleSyrup]

The stainless is for the sides of the arch and is being cut by Jim at Smoky Lake Maple.
great guy. It's 22 gauge. I painted the arch last night, so if plans go as planned (which they usually don't). I will have the stainless in place later this week.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

Another question. Where to find the best price to get single wall stainless 10" stack? I find it in 2' lengths but not 4' or longer. I need 8' above the base stack. Any suggestions?

[mellondome]

You check with jim? Or local Amish.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

Yes. Jim has the 2' sections. No Amish community around northeastern Minnesota.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

Here are a few photos of the arch as well. Insulating has started. Someone had asked whether or not to insulate the stack base plate in another post. I did insulate mine with a single layer of 1" blanket. I think the photos can explain better than me how I did it.

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[nymapleguy607]

http://www.ventingpipe.com/duravent-8dbk-48ss-8-inner-diameter-durablack-stove-pipe-single-wall-48-pipe-length/p2477261


I bought my stainless pipe through these people. Arch is looking good.

[Waynehere]

Hey Feychad, how did your new arch pan out??? :) Sure looks impressive.

[sluggish]

Sure does, that's a beauty.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

Waynehere:
Funny you should ask, I was just wrapping up a test boil today and was going to post some photos. Boiled about 60 GPH.

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[Waynehere]

Hey Chad, 60 gph is great. Especially without any preheater hood. Very impressive looking as well. How tall of firebox did you end up with? Were you able to get a reading of your stack temps? I am looking to revamp my arch this summer as I need more heat for the new pans I just bought. I had firebricks, but don't think I had enough holes. Went to plain angle-iron grates and did much better. But still need more heat.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

Waynehere

I'm not sure on the height of the firebox, but will measure it and let you know. We've been reloading wood when the stack temp hits 750 and run between 800-900. Two days ago was the last boil we did and we boiled down 320 gallons between 9am and quit firing at 2:30, so somewhere between 55-60 gph. We were drawing off a little more than a gallon every 20-25 minutes. We used two loads of oak that filled the back of my Polaris ranger. It was pretty amazing to watch as this was the first year of continuous boil rather than batch boiling. The outside of my pans have drips and runs down the side from sap jumping out of the pans. Once we hit 900 on stack temp, the boil gets too tall and we start losing too much sap out the flue pan.

[Waynehere]

We just chased the syrup out of our pans today with water. We are all done... Made 80 gallons on 220 taps... Better then we thought it was going to be...

I was thinking about making my firebox deeper and that is why the inquiry.. Plus I want to extend my ramp back to halfway on my sap pan. I think the radiant heat from the flames will make it boil much better the just running the hot gases up and through the flues. Ours is currently exposed only a foot of a 4' sap pan.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

Waynehere:

Sorry for the delay in posting the firebox dimensions. They are inside finished dimensions: 18" wide x 26" tall x 54" deep. I do have AOF/AUF so the firebox is long. Just a little less than 1/2 the flue pain is in the fire box. PM me if you want to see a few photos of my build.