Need advice on finishing/bottling

[Goggleeye]

Here's the situation. Need a way to finish and bottle that's not as hard on the wife's back. Her chiropractor visits ate up all the maple profit this last year.
How we've been finishing: Pull of evap at just under density, reheat and bring to density on stock pots, pour through cone filters into stainless milk can with valve for filling jars. It works well, but 200 gallons of syrup this way was too much on the back.
I've never seen the finisher/bottler setups in action, but is this something I could use to, say pour 15 gallons of near density, pre-filtered syrup into before I leave for work and the wife could take care of the rest without lifting heavy stock pots or milk cans?

I guess my main concern is that if the syrup is reheated enough to achieve correct density, won't that develop nitre below the filters?
Also, we're looking at about 450 taps to a potential of about 1000. What would be my best options here? Thanks

[maple flats]

I never lift any heavy pots anymore. I use my filter press to move syrup, first from a draw off tank to a finisher, then from a finisher draw off thru the filter press to a bottler. Then on the bottler I have a hands free valve with foot pedal to operate the syrup flow as I fill bottles and jugs.
If you don't have a filter press nor are ready to get one, just set up a filter press gear pump with an electric motor to move the product. You will need some high temp. clear hose for a suction line with a copper or PVC suction tube on the suction end. On the outlet to the pump you can use a simple vinyl hose to move the product to the next location. Do not have any restriction in that hose like a reducer or valve, or it will burst. Now you can use the pump to do the heavy work. At the pump inlet design a T with a short stand pipe and a valve or camlock cap or both, to prime the pump if needed. When the pump is new it should self prime unless you have a long lift, but on a long lift or as the pump begins to wear just prime the pump using that stand pipe with cool syrup and turn the pump on. It will then seal well enough to pull the hot syrup to and thru the pump. The hot syrup hose is special and will likely only come from a dealer who sells filterpress hose, the hose for after the pump can just be the clear braid reinforced hose sold by the foot at places like Lowes and Home Depot or likely many hardware stores. Try to keep the suction hose as short a practical, but the after pump hose can be as long as you need. To power this all, you can get a 3/8" gear pump (made for filter presses) and power it with a 1/4 HP motor. Turn the pump about 400-800 RPM. While a 1/4 HP would not run a filter press this will not be pushing against any restriction and it will move syrup just fine.
If you are ready for a filter press, just use the bypass hose to move syrup and the pressure side to filter syrup. If your press does not have a bypass hose, just add a tee between the pump and the filter plates. There you can use a simple ball valve on each side, just do not run the pump with both valves closed. When filtering, as the pressure climbs above the recommended pressure, just slowly open the bypass valve to control the pressure. This way you get more filtering without changing the papers as soon.

[BAP]

Why aren't you taking the syrup off the evaporator at the correct density? It is just as easy to take off the correct density as to take off slightly less than correct density syrup. A 2.5x8 evaporator with that much syrup you should be able to take it off at the correct density and save the step of reheating. Get and economical auto-draw off and a small filter press and life will be much easier. That way as you expand you can keep up with the increased production with out the back breaking labor of lifting all that syrup.

[lpakiz]

I agree. Draw syrup at correct density off the evaporator.
For 200 gallons, you are definitely in the market for a filter press, water jacket bottler and all the convenience they bring.

[Goggleeye]

All these options require me opening my wallet a lot further than I like! But so do Dr. visits. So, several more questions.

What size filter press for approx 1000 taps max?
Or would something like a 16 x 24 canning unit with the gravity filtration still work if I pull the syrup off at the correct density? I have no idea what a reasonable expectation is for these gravity filtration canning units.
Also, any recommendations for an economical auto-draw off?
thanks again, Mark

[maple flats]

First of all, I do not use an automatic draw, I like adjusting to maintain a continuous draw. That being said, many use the auto draws. For a filter press a 7" short bank (3 set of plates) press is fine, but as you grow you will likely want to add 2 more sets as I did. Last season I had 1320 taps plus I took in sap from almost 8-900 more (bought on shares). I used my 7" filter press with 5 sets of plates and it worked just fine. I draw my syrup anywhere from right on to about .2 points more dense and pump it to my finisher. Then I hold it until I have enough to pack a barrel. I draw between 7 and 8 gal/hr when at full boil (boiling concentrate) so it takes me at least 5 hrs if I am filling a 40 gal barrel. When I get just over that amount, I raise the temp to 205-210, verify and correct density and then I filter it and pump it into my barrel. Last year I had some 40 gal, 30 gal and just 4 in 16 gal barrels, all SS, so the 40 took the longest. Most generally, since I pump to the finisher at about 10 gal at a time, when I pump the time that gets me over 40 the syrup in the finisher is usually between 100 and about 130, so I need to heat it from there. I like going from just right to slightly dense because I find it is faster to get it just right, than having to boil it a little more.
I have now bought 10 new barrels at 26.5 gal so it is easier to open and pack a barrel to restock my cooler during the year, I find the 40 gal of all 1 grade is just too much to fit in my coolers and I like to keep my syrup refrigerated once packed.
While possible to filter for 1000 taps by gravity, I find it too much trouble, but a few do lots more, all gravity filtering. If you try that you may want more surface area to filter, not just a 16x24 canner. I bought a few tanks from a local about 8-10 years ago who did over 3000 taps and filtered it all gravity. He had a bunch of filter units that were likely between 30" to 36" square, each with a cover and a rack to support the flat filters. It worked for him fine for several years. I bought some SS tanks, barrels and a few other items from him as he retired from maple. If you want to pursue that method, read Mountainvan's posts about how he filters.
I won't try to give any ideas on auto draw, I have one that came with a bunch of other stuff but never hooked it up. I may someday try it, it is not for sale.

[Sugarmaker]

Sorry to hear about your wife's back. Some suggestions, some have been mentioned:
1. If you dont have one invest in a good auto draw off system and take the syrup off at or slightly above density.
2. Recommend a Murphy cup to check density at any temp ( then you can use that for canning too.) I have to get one myself:)
3. For 200 gallons of syrup you need a filter press! I really like the Siro 12 inch unit. No lifting of syrup! (We make the same amount of syrup you do) At 100 gallons gravity was a good option.
4. Get a good canner to hold and maintain the syrup temp for canning. You can pump from the press into the canner or into bulk containers.
5. For bulk containers we use the 2.5 gallon jugs vs 5 gallons. Much easier on the back too.
6. Some nice rolling carts to hold the jugs or bulk containers before and after filling.

Good luck,
Regards,
Chris

[Goggleeye]

So I'm getting an idea of what I am going to need to do. Maybe I should vacation in real sugar land once and visit one of you guys.

So let me see if I am understanding this.

1. Draw off at or slightly above density.
2. When I've got 10-20 gallons, heat it up in a finisher and run through the filter press/sirofilter.
3. The filter press will deliver the syrup to the canning unit.



Thanks

[Goggleeye]

While possible to filter for 1000 taps by gravity, I find it too much trouble, but a few do lots more, all gravity filtering. If you try that you may want more surface area to filter, not just a 16x24 canner. I bought a few tanks from a local about 8-10 years ago who did over 3000 taps and filtered it all gravity. He had a bunch of filter units that were likely between 30" to 36" square, each with a cover and a rack to support the flat filters. It worked for him fine for several years. I bought some SS tanks, barrels and a few other items from him as he retired from maple. If you want to pursue that method, read Mountainvan's posts about how he filters.

The chief sugarmaker (wife) said this option didn't seem like it would reduce the back stress! So I guess we're in the market for some sort of filtering system with a pump!

[Goggleeye]

Sorry to hear about your wife's back. Some suggestions, some have been mentioned:

3. For 200 gallons of syrup you need a filter press! I really like the Siro 12 inch unit. No lifting of syrup! (We make the same amount of syrup you do) At 100 gallons gravity was a good option.



Chris - I've researched the siro filter a bit and like what I see. How many gallons can you filter before you have to clean the setup? I realize it probably depends on nitre levels, but just a ballpark figure.

Thanks,

Mark

[Goggleeye]

Did more research, looks like we're going with the 12 inch siro. Next question. What size finishing pan and canner would you recommend? I want to buy with the future in mind, so we'll eventually be looking at about 1000 taps, I hope. We're at 460 or so right now. I would really like to be able to finish about 20 gallons at a time.

I was thinking along the the lines of a 16 x 34 Grimm gas finisher and a 16 X 24 gas canner. Only concern is that the canner I found that size on Bascom's doesn't have the water heating pan base. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark

[maple flats]

Water jacked is real nice, but I still use a std. propane fired canner. Mine is 16x24. Full it holds about 18 gal, a little less when I used to use the filter rack. For 1000 taps I'd suggest a 2x4 or 2x5 finisher. I started using a 16x34 finisher, but that was no where near as easy as when I got my 2x6 finisher. A 2x4, 2x5 and 2x6 are all built the same, using 4 tube burners to heat while the 16x34 uses 2 round burners. The tube burners will give much more uniform heating and heats much faster than the 16x34. The big difference from 2x4 up to 2x6 is just the capacity. I like having enough in the finisher to do a whole batch at once so I can fill a barrel all at the same time. So, to do that, the size depends on what size you are bulk packing into. When I bought my 2x6 I was using 40 gal barrels and I could easily finish enough for the 40 gal plus enother 16-18 gal for in the canner all at once, which I sometimes did. I have now decided I like filling 40 gal barrels but I do not like opening them and canning 40 gal of one grade all at one time, so I have now bought a batch of 26.5 gal SS barrels. While I still have the 2x6 finisher, I could easily do that on a 2x4 too, but won't likely change. Now I will be able to bulk 2 of the 26.5 gal. barrels when the season is running full tilt and the rest of the time I'll likely heat just over 26.5 gal and pack smaller batches at a time. If I was just getting into a finisher, I likely would get a 2x4 if I was using 26.5 gal bbls. or smaller.

[wiam]

I bought this one last spring.
https://www.kelleybees.com/Shop/18/Honey-Harvesting/Honey-House-Processing/4705/Water-Jacketed-Double-Boiler-Tank

Then put my own element and thermostat in it. Kind of like using an RO or filter press. Never go back. lol

[Goggleeye]

I bought this one last spring.
https://www.kelleybees.com/Shop/18/Honey-Harvesting/Honey-House-Processing/4705/Water-Jacketed-Double-Boiler-Tank

Then put my own element and thermostat in it. Kind of like using an RO or filter press. Never go back. lol

Never thought of using honey processing equipment. Maybe should have, being that we got into bee keeping this summer when I successfully captured a wild hive. A canner like that could have done double duty. I guess I should be able to use a maple canner for honey, though.

Dave- Thanks for the advice on the finishing pans. I like the idea of going to the 2 X 4, but there sure is a price jump from the 16" x 24" to the 2 X 4, which puts it a bit out of our price range. And used maple equipment is a bit hard to come by in SE Missouri:lol: I'm going to keep a look out for a 2 X 4 that's reasonable, but I don't think we need a finisher large enough to do barrels. I hope I don't regret that thinking later. I think even at 1000 taps, we would put it all into glass right away. Thanks again for the advice. I feel like I'm on the right path now.

Mark

[wiam]

Never thought of using honey processing equipment. Maybe should have, being that we got into bee keeping this summer when I successfully captured a wild hive. A canner like that could have done double duty. I guess I should be able to use a maple canner for honey, though.

Dave- Thanks for the advice on the finishing pans. I like the idea of going to the 2 X 4, but there sure is a price jump from the 16" x 24" to the 2 X 4, which puts it a bit out of our price range. And used maple equipment is a bit hard to come by in SE Missouri:lol: I'm going to keep a look out for a 2 X 4 that's reasonable, but I don't think we need a finisher large enough to do barrels. I hope I don't regret that thinking later. I think even at 1000 taps, we would put it all into glass right away. Thanks again for the advice. I feel like I'm on the right path now.

Mark

I would advise against bottling all right away. It never ends up in the right size. It also stores long term better in bulk containers.

[Goggleeye]

I would advise against bottling all right away. It never ends up in the right size. It also stores long term better in bulk containers.
I see what you mean about never being the right size. Seems like we always run out of the small sizes. Maybe it's the tight Dutchman in me, but I can't figure out for the life of me why some of these people will buy an 8 oz jar every week or two rather than buying the quart, which is significantly cheaper by the ounce. Oh well, more profit for us. As far as is storing better in bulk containers, I thought it wouldn't make a difference, at least in glass anyhow.

[Goggleeye]

So far, the Sirofilter is working out pretty good for us. We've filtered about 40 gallons of syrup with it, all clear as can be. For those of you who have one, at what pressure do you operate? As more pressure would build, I would adjust the bypass valve so it was running about 35 psi. Is it OK to keep backing off with the bypass as long as I'm happy with how much syrup is going into the canner? Or is there a better method? Also, is there one place that is better than another for the Velcro strip on the filter?

Thanks

MG

[johnallin]

Mark
It's recommended that the Velcro be on the opposite side of the outlet in the siro filter.