Logger is coming

[gmcooper]

One of my sugar bushes is going to have some selective cutting done as the owner wants some income. We spent 3 hours today walking woods where the forester plans to take mostly oak saw logs and possibly some pine saw logs. Thankfully most cutting will be in a section where there are few if any maples. Biggest issue is they will have to cross 2 sections of main line. I will also have to take down 20-30 lateral lines. Landowner is will to help with all of that. My biggest concern is whether the forester and logger are on the same page as the landowner. Or maybe better stated whether the logger will cut what he is hired to cut and not everything he can get a skidder to and claim it was in the way and had to go. Any advice on how to keep the forester and logger in line?

[tuckermtn]

in most situations, forester works for landowner, not logger. clarify that that is the case. and make sure landowner knows they have ultimate say.

but if landowner wants income, that is totally within his/her right to make the call that way. everyone has their own reasons for owning land, and landowers rights to me are paramount.

[gmcooper]

In this case the forester is working for the owner and has in the past on another lot. I may be a bit paranoid as I am familiar with many cases of logger cutting way beyond the scope of the owners agreement with the forester and after the fact the forester backing the logger. This land owner had this happen with a previous forester.

[sugaringman85]

I know how there is a bad rap for many loggers and foresters out there. It sucks to be part of an industry that has so many bad operators and business owners. There are loggers and foresters out there that do care about what they do. They also try to work with the forester and land owner to do what the landowner/and leasee want. I am a logger/landowner/sugar maker. I have done a few harvests for other fellow sugar makers, and many harvests for foresters. With any luck your landowner after being burned once by another logger and forester, they have found a honest forester and logger. I understand your concerns, but we're not all bad.

[maple flats]

Is it possible you and the landowner together could speak with the forester to express your concerns? If it is, that may help, even though the landowner still has all authority.

[gmcooper]

The land owner is planning to have me meet with the forester on site before anything is cut to be sure we have cleared all tubing and lines from where they will be cutting. In this case the land owner is very interested in keeping maple production on his land. At 80+ he still walks tubing several days a week in the sugar bush during sap season.

Adding. There are some very good foresters and loggers out there. Hoping the owner has found both. I know a logger that told me once "if we only cut what the owners wanted, we would never make any money".
I have to say I thought there would be responses suggesting marking trees to be cut or marking boundaries of areas off limits or similar.

[n8hutch]

I work for A rather large logging company, we have 20 tractor trailers on the road, 4 chipping crews & 1 cut to length crew, I don't have anything to do with the logging side of the company but I have observed over the years that sometimes the Land owners get greedy, especially if they didn't buy the land like if it was handed down to them or something, quite often they will hire a respected forest & do a selective cut , then next year they a running low on cash or they decide they really need this or that & they decide to cut more wood. Then 4 years later they got the itch for more cash & they go in & take whatever is left.

The problem is big companies like the one I work for can't really turn down the work. They need to keep the machines going and sometimes they will cut Job's that they probably shouldn't.

Not saying that this happens every time but it does happen alot. And let's face it most folks aren't going to tell their friends or neighbors that they really needed the money or something like that, there going to say, "we'll the logger really cut more than I wanted them too"

[GeneralStark]

The ultimate question is who is marking the trees to be cut? The landowner, the forester, or the logger?

Fortunately for you it sounds like any maple in the area has been tapped so the timber value has decreased and there likely won't be a veneer log to be found.

The fact that a forester is actually involved is a good thing, it is the situation that n8hutch refers to when a logger is called in to make some money for the landowner, that it can turn into a high grading nightmare.

Unfortunately you don't own the land so the landowner has the ultimate say, but if you have some pull, suggesting a contract that restricts the cutting area could be useful.

[bigtreemaple]

gmcooper, you are correct, the trees to be cut should be marked both at DBH and on the stump before any cutting begins. The harvest area should be delineated by 2 or 3 stripe on boundary trees. If the forester is a real professional forester and not just a timber jockey he no doubt already has this done. Also a written contract between the landowner and the logger is a must, the professional forester should have one that can be adapted to the specific situation. The worst think that can happen is turning a logger loose with some direction like "cut all timber x" and larger at a height of 12" above the ground" if that happens I will be willing to bet you will not be a happy camper when the job is finished. I say all of this from many years experience as a wood procurement forester.

[gmcooper]

Just an update. Back a month ago I met with owner and forester. We walked much of lot and marked out where to take out main lines. Owner had taken down many laterals already. (More than needed). Week Later logger started. Was supposed to be 1 man,1 cable skidder. Ended up 2 men 2 skidders. I know ones family they both seem like good guys. They were doing a decent job at that point. They were supposed to finish last weekend according to owner. They were still cutting today. Will be in the woods this weekend putting what I can back up. Will follow up how it turned out.

[gmcooper]

Thought I would follow up now that everyone is finished. Forester was good to work with and clearly understood what the owner wanted. He marked the lot lines as well as trees to cut. He also marked out where lines were to stay for logger to stay our of. They were cutting oak for veneer, high grade logs and some pulp. Some pine was cut for saw logs but no pulp. A few ash and birch went for pulp. They cut 2 sugar maples that I tapped(one was tight to main skid road and never would have survived if they left it. 2nd was in amongst some oak and pine that went, not a big deal for me. They cut a few maples that were 3-6" scattered around the lot. The only issue owner had was they did not cut 25-30% of the marked trees. Near the end of their time on the lot Verso paper mill filed for bankruptcy. The hardwood pulp we understand would have gone there. Not sure what was going on but the trucker said the wood yard he was hauling to was full to the road and overflowing. They may have been cut off from shipping anymore or worried about getting paid. My only issue is all the tree tops left in the woods.

[buckeye gold]

Lots of good firewood in those tops:D If no one is cutting firewood then ask if you can go in and just cut the limbs down off the tops that are in your way. Once they are on the ground they rot faster. In the long run those tops add nutrients back to the soil and the increased light will enhance the growth of your Maples, the next issue is all the new understory brush that comes with the light increase. I actually had to bush hog my trails for a few years after I cut timber.