New tubing set up

[western mainer]

Next year we will be adding 800-900 taps in a new part of our woods. I will have a main line that goes in 1,600 feet with 10- 3/4 branch lines 4 that will be about 200 feet and the other 6 will be up to 400 feet. I'm look for some help sizing the main line, my grade will be 2% -5%.
Thank Brian

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Are you planning a wet dry system?

[western mainer]

I want to look at it from all angles.
Brian

[bigtreemaple]

If you go with a wet dry system I think a 1.25" dry line and a 1" wet line would do the job nicely. If you only use a wet line I think a 1.5" line is needed. It depends a little on how many cfm your pump is but if it is 15 cfm or bigger then you should be in good shape.

[western mainer]

Thanks for the reply. I will be working on this as we are thinning the woods this winter.
Brian

[spud]

If you go with a wet dry system I think a 1.25" dry line and a 1" wet line would do the job nicely. If you only use a wet line I think a 1.5" line is needed. It depends a little on how many cfm your pump is but if it is 15 cfm or bigger then you should be in good shape.

You are right on. The only thing I would add is only having 3 taps per lateral line. I would NEVER use 3/4 pipe in my woods. Spend a little more on 1 inch and get more CFMs to the end of all your mainline. Vacuum transfer is everything. Good luck.

Spud

[unc23win]

The only thing I would add is only having 3 taps per lateral line.Spud

Ditto that well worth doing!

[DrTimPerkins]

Vacuum transfer is everything.

Slight modification, no particular order of importance, but all three are KEY in high yield production.

Good tree resource (correct size, healthy, not over-tapped).
Good vacuum (good tubing layout and maintenance, good pump/releaser, or set up sited/set up properly for gravity vacuum with 3/16")
Good spout/drop sanitation.

The only other determining factor is Mother Nature, but we can't do much about that either way.

[lpakiz]

On the subject of taps per lateral, I agree that 3 would be better than five. Of course, 5 is better than 10.
FWIW, I have approximately 200 taps in a small woods and am replacing all the lateral lines due to splices, leaks, hardening of the tubing, deer and squirrel damage, etc. I have identified the need for 85 saddles. Many trees along the mainline are the only tree on that saddle. Other places a tree is a considerable distance from the mainline and also will be the only tree on that saddle. Probably overkill, not economically prudent, but it should be close to perfect.

[western mainer]

Thanks Spud, Is going to 3 on a lat that much plus over 5? And how long is to long for the lateral ?
Brian

[maple flats]

You will use about 66% more saddles and somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe double the lateral line, but you will get the most sap from that design. One thing that will lessen the cost is if you have some good slopes. If yes, you can put 20-30 taps (and even as many as 35 taps) on a 3/16 lateral and the natural vacuum will be good, especially if you have 25-30' drop near the bottom of the slope. 5/16 lateral do best if you keep them short, 50' is ideal, 75 is good, never more than 100'. But 3/16 with the slope and natural vacuum, the lateral can be as long a several hundred feet.

[western mainer]

The woods will be on vacuum but may not be the first year,
Thanks Brian

[BreezyHill]

After seeing and using a vaccum tester I am going back to 5 over three on my 5/16 lats. An opening of 1/8" is valued at 2 CFM so in a length of 50-75' feet of 5/16 tubing there is plenty of room for 5 taps flow plus vac transfer

One thing that many over look: You don't need to get all of the vacuum transfer to the end of the 1600 feet.

If at 600 feet you have past 700 of your taps, you only need vac transfer past that point for the remainder (100-200 taps)

I like to stay with all 1" lines so that I don't have to have several different sizes of saddles, connectors, etc on hand.

There is a theory that oversized conductors act as a balance tank and help with surges but the larger the conductor the more weight you must support; and the more chance of pooling if adequate support is not provided. Pooling stops vac transfer past the pool.

I would strongly suggest Getting Steve Childs (Cornell University) Tubing Book. It is a valuable tool to fully understand the concept of vac transfer.

You listed that you had 2% - 5% slope...in the book it will explain that the flattest slope is what you use for you calculation since this is the point of least flow.

It also explains sizing the wet and dry lines relative to tap count.

Good Luck!

Ben

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I'm with spud. Three taps to a lateral. Personal experience on 8000+ taps. More mainline, short laterals, 3 taps to a lateral gets me the most sap. I was at a presentation in Verona a few years ago where vacuum transfer and sap flow on 5/16 lines was discussed. Each added tap after the first one meant less sap per tap. The question becomes where is the economic balance point.