Scaling up

[mudr]

Hi guys and gals. I am currently a small hobby producer, 1 year with 40 taps, but I have the desire and spousal support to get larger. Ideally, I'd grow to about 150-200 taps (over time). The question is- where do I spend money first. I've got trees, a half mile back down a lane and then across a soft farm field (always fall plowed). The 4 wheeler gets through but i cant take more than 40 gallons on the trailer. I do not have a shack (4 steam pan setup outside) yet but I have the hopes and location for a 16x24. I have a quote for a builder to make a drop flue 2x5, I may tell him to make it a 2x6 when I order next spring.


The question is: where do I spend first? The evaporator? Then I don't have a shack to keep it in, and may be limited on sap. Do you know anyone that sells smaller quantities of sap (~250 gallons?) In the genesee county area of ny? I could spend money to ramp up my sap collection, but I'm looking at a grand for the gas pump and 1100 ft of line to run across the hedge row to the lane where I can use a tractor. But, I'm already almost maxed at 40 taps and my 4 steam pans.

So- where would you spend first?

[WESTMAPLES]

honestly my first year was a 2x3 small bros divided pan on a oil tank arch i made with blower ( true performance homemade arch) with 56 taps, no vac, out side. second year bought a mint leader 2x6 WSE, 10 inch filter press, built a 17 gal finisher, 1 inch gas sap pump,326 taps with high vac, 2 bender relaesers with vac pumps and huts on top of 275 gal cage tanks, under a 14x16 carport off the side of my steel building ( built a steam hood for my flue pan ), third year added wet/ dry lines, 2 stainless insulated milk tanks, 18 gal water bath canner i transformed from a used leader 16x24 unit, up to 42? something taps. and for the upcoming season i have a RO, and a few more tanks, and probly another 250 taps so hopefully i can grow agian i sure im forgetting so stuff. but i sugared as a young kid and loved watching the 4x12 boil along... fast forward 10 years and the poeple i did it with are all passed away and there family let everything go to hell.... fast forward another 8 years and im starting out on my own, with all the hope i will be standing next to my own 4x12 one day.... good luck and don`t let the price of everything get you down, soon enough you will be looking at buying stuff and all you`ll think is `` how many gallons of syrup you`ll have to sell to make the cash back`` then it won`t seem so bad lol

[maple flats]

When starting to grow, I'd suggest you look for a decent used evaporator, but if soldered be sure it is lead free, rather than getting one built by someone, especially if they are not real familiar with evaporators. But that's just me. Do you have any slope where the trees are? If you even only have 8-10' of slope, I'd suggest using 3/16 lateral lines and collect them in as few tanks as possible, 1 is best but not always possible or feasible without vacuum. Then get a sap pump and pump the sap from the tank(s) to where you will boil. A 1" gas powered pump and a 1" black poly pipe will move lots of sap.
Then if you outgrow whatever evaporator you get, look for a bigger one just after the season ends, that is when you will get the best prices, new or used.
As far as sugarhouses go, I built a 16x24 after my first season thinking I may eventually get to 250-300 taps. I then got a used 2x6 and it fit well. I kept growing and before I knew it I outgrown the evap. At that point I should have gotten an RO, but I found a 3x8 evap. at a great price so I bought that. It fit in the sugarhouse OK but things were getting crowded. I had added a filter press, a 16x24" bottler and a 16x34 finisher. I now will have about 1450 taps this coming season (remember, I was only going to grow to 250-300) and I bought a new set of pans for my 3x8 arch. I since have added a 250 GPH RO and my finisher now is 2'x6'. The little 16'x24' sugarhouse is now real cramped. I really need to expand but life keeps getting the way.

[optionguru]

Used evaporator for sure. I've spent the last 3 seasons growing incrementally and each year my evaporator improvements weren't quite enough. I finally bought a nice used pan that was borderline oversized and now with the coming seasons planned growth from 88 to 110 taps it should be perfect. I should have done the evaporator first and saved myself lots of wasted hours improving my steam table pan set-up. Now I just bought a Honda WX10 1" gas pump to move sap across my soft field. I think if you save some money by buying a used evaporator you may be able to put a little money towards a couple other improvements as well. I boiled for 3 years outside before building a sugar house.

Good luck and enjoy the process.

[tcross]

I'd get the used evaporator first as well! along with some sort of shelter to boil out of the weather in! I sort of did. I started this only 3 years ago with 55 buckets (whatever I could find), steam table pans and a cinder block arch in the doorway of my "used to be" horse barn. Now the barn has been converted into my sugarhouse. My second year, I scrounged up a used 4x4 syrup pan and built an arch with angle iron to fit it. added high vacuum with 100 taps on line and about 60 buckets. Last year was 210 vacuum taps with no buckets and fashioned up a copper preheater with a plastic hood! Lots of boiling, but I saved some money getting used equipment! nothing new this year (I say now), but next year I plan on buying a 2 1/2 x 10 arch to grow into! I have access to about 500 taps on my land and that's where I plan on stopping. but as you'll notice from reading everyone's posts around here, it's not so easy to stop buying equipment and increasing your tap count! So, if you plan to grow over time, take it slow, ask lots of questions and learn how everything works the best you can! find good used equipment (there's lots out there!!) and even borrow stuff from older producers who are willing to help. Trust me... they usually are more then willing to teach you and or let you borrow a tool or two to get you by until you can get it yourself! I sell my surplus of syrup to family, friends and co workers. in another year or two, i'll have enough to get a "real" evaporator! After that I'll be saving for a concrete floor for the shack!

[mudr]

Maple Flats:
When starting to grow, I'd suggest you look for a decent used evaporator, but if soldered be sure it is lead free, rather than getting one built by someone, especially if they are not real familiar with evaporators. But that's just me.

You say something that is echoed by a lot of other people on this thread: go used. I am shocked at the going rate of a used evaporator. From the ones I've seen that are worth the time to even look at, I'm probably at 85-90% of the cost of a new one. I'd rather have a new one. Besides, if I outgrow it I would probably get an RO first, which would save room in a shack. With that plan of pairing an RO in the future, I'd probably run the 2x6 a long time, so newer would be nice. Regarding the "builder", he has plenty of experience making evaporators and syrup. Heck, he's a 3rd generation syrup maker I think :). The only problem is he thinks it's perfectly fine to run like 700 taps on a 2x6. :) :) :) The price he gave me (via private discussions over on SBI) is VERY reasonable.

Someone asked about running 3/16 line on a slope and then pump out: the woods are on a slope, but the wrong way. I can hang 150 bags pretty easily next to a dump station on the high side of the woods and will hopefully pick up a pump and a bunch of line. I just hope 1 inch will be sufficient.

In summary, it looks like you guys advocate to just get the evap first. Hopefully I will get the pump and line a year after. The shack will have to wait.

[maple flats]

My first year I just had a vendor's canopy over my 2x3 Half Pint. Then I ran the stack braced but leaning back a lot so I could cover the pan while keeping the canopy far enough from the hot stack to keep from damaging the canopy. You can get some protection from the elements without the sugarhouse. However once you build the sugarhouse you will find that the boil is much better because you don't have cold air blowing on the rig.
As far as a 2x6, some producers run more than 700 taps on a 2x6. That depends on how much time you have to boil and how far you concentrate the sap using an RO.
I can only get 75% water removal in one pass, which if you start with 2% sap, you can get 8%. Then if you run it again you can get higher, the amount depends on the RO , your expertise and how well you know your evaporator. With my RO, I ran it once to 18% (by mistake) which plugged my membranes and forced me to do a permeate rinse to get it flowing again. An RO which runs at higher pressure can get higher concentrations. I usually boil at between 12-14%. At 12% it takes just over 7 gal of concentrate to get 1 gal of syrup. If your 2x6 boils at 25 gph, that gives you slightly over 3 gal of syrup/hr. If your 2x6 boils at 50 gph (and many do) you get almost 7 gph of syrup. The super 2x6's if run to the max. can boil 100+ gph. It is highly unlikely a "homemade" rig will do any better than 25-30 gph. The great ones are the result of loads of testing, refinements and trial/error. A homemade one is not likely to get that perfect of a design. Unfortunately you are not shopping for a used evaporator at the best time. Size matters too, a 2x6 is going to run more than a much bigger one because of supply and demand, but the best priced would be too big for your size operation. The better prices seem to start at about 3x12 and larger.
Has the one who quoted you the good price built a few in the past? Will it be welded or soldered? What boil rate does he get on his rig?