cfm

[PATheron]

Wondered how many cfms would have at end of 3000 feet of two inch pipe. Trying to decide how to run some far away trees. Thanks Theron

[maple flats]

Theron, do you have the Cornell Maple Tubing Notebook by Steve Childs? In there are charts to answer that question. It will involve the CFM of the pump and the " of vacuum if I recall correctly. If you don't have the notebook, I'll try to remember to bring mine home when I'm at the sugarhouse later today, then I can look it up for you.

[Moser's Maple]

i have it right here Dave
15 cfm at relaser will give you 13 cfm @ 3000'
30 cfm @ releaser will give you 20 cfm @ 3000'
60 cfm @ releaser will give you 25 cfm @ 3000'
80 cfm and up at releaser will give you 26 cfm @ 3000'
these are all figures on a dry system

[PATheron]

I don't have that Dave. Maybe today Ill try to order it. It would help me a lot. I think I mislead you Jake. What I was wondering is If my pump is one place and I run 3000 foot of two inch to a releaser how many cfms Id have at that new releaser. I tubed up trees on the other side of a hill and now Ive got to figure out the best way to put vac on them. Bad spot but good trees. Theron

[maple flats]

Thanks Jake, Theron, if that's not enough, going even larger on the pipe size makes a huge difference.

[Moser's Maple]

I don't have that Dave. Maybe today Ill try to order it. It would help me a lot. I think I mislead you Jake. What I was wondering is If my pump is one place and I run 3000 foot of two inch to a releaser how many cfms Id have at that new releaser. I tubed up trees on the other side of a hill and now Ive got to figure out the best way to put vac on them. Bad spot but good trees. Theron
ok theron
sorry just presumed coming off from releaser, but anyways those numbers should be good from pump to releaser, only thing I'm leaving out the the equations you need if you are running more than 1 line off that pump.
like I believe Dave mentioned you give the size of the pump, and what size lines you have the pump running those lines and how many lines I can give you a ball park idea of the exact cfm you'll carry to your new releaser. I have time to do this since all I'm doing is hanging around the house because of a pinched sciatic nerve. Now if anybody has a quick fix for that I'm open to any ideas, because going on 8 weeks now I'm open to any new ideas the Dr's haven't given me

[maple flats]

My son in law is a Chiropractor, I believe they sometimes have good results with sciatic nerve issues. Have you tried that route?

[Moser's Maple]

My son in law is a Chiropractor, I believe they sometimes have good results with sciatic nerve issues. Have you tried that route?
chiropractor, message theropist, orthopedic group, and physical theropy......thank god the wife has some good insurance

[CharlieR]

I had an degenerating disc issue that I believe was putting some pressure on the sciatic nerve due to inflammation. My main issue was that I couldn't sit for more that a couple of mins without a lot of discomfort. I ended up having a epidural cortisone injection in my lower back and it slowly made a difference. I also tried Chiro and PT with limited success. I have to sit with lumber support still but i'm relatively pain free. Maybe a second opinion with a spinal specialist MD? This all started 8 months ago its a slow process!! Good luck!

[Moser's Maple]

I had an degenerating disc issue that I believe was putting some pressure on the sciatic nerve due to inflammation. My main issue was that I couldn't sit for more that a couple of mins without a lot of discomfort. I ended up having a epidural cortisone injection in my lower back and it slowly made a difference. I also tried Chiro and PT with limited success. I have to sit with lumber support still but i'm relatively pain free. Maybe a second opinion with a spinal specialist MD? This all started 8 months ago its a slow process!! Good luck!
thanks charlie. actually we discussed this was the next step in my process......oh and the orthopedic said it was never too late for a career change from construction to a more back friend profession

[Tmeeeh]

A friend of mine had good luck with an inversion table. You lie back against it and when you shift your weight you slowly tip head down and feet up. Your feet are strapped in. You hang by your feet upside down for a minute or two twice a day. It decompresses your spine. It probably not for everyone but he avoided back surgery with it.

[BreezyHill]

ok theron
sorry just presumed coming off from releaser, but anyways those numbers should be good from pump to releaser, only thing I'm leaving out the the equations you need if you are running more than 1 line off that pump.
like I believe Dave mentioned you give the size of the pump, and what size lines you have the pump running those lines and how many lines I can give you a ball park idea of the exact cfm you'll carry to your new releaser. I have time to do this since all I'm doing is hanging around the house because of a pinched sciatic nerve. Now if anybody has a quick fix for that I'm open to any ideas, because going on 8 weeks now I'm open to any new ideas the Dr's haven't given me

Miofacial release...spell check was no help at all on this one.lol

It is the most painful message you will ever have. But it worked for me. I literally crawled into the house...friend does this so he took me at his house on a weekend. He laughed and told me to get on the table in the den...that was a task in its own. I finally got up there and he came in after talking with my wife...she drove me there I was unable to drive.

An hour and a half later I walked out of his house, drove home and could do anything. For the next few weeks I did the stretches he told me to do and every time I get in trouble now, I do them. I will likely have to go back after I get off the Lyme drugs cause I am a mess again.

Chiro's are great also but they fix the bone alignment...then the tight muscle pulls it all out of place again. I should stretch all the time but don't. Not a fan of the pain of stretching and don't have the time either.

Good Luck...that is the worst not being able to sit. Remember all to well.

[Maplewalnut]

Holy high-jacked thread...LOL

Theron- I am not an engineer by any means but I use the friction loss charts as a guidleline not gospel. You probably saw I had a new set up this year with a releaser more than 1000ft from sp-22 and only ran a single 1 inch line from pump to releaser (because thats what I had). I had 24inches at pump and 22.5inches at releaser all season long. 500+ tap bush and 22inches at farthest point in system another 1000 feet from releaser.

Mike

[PATheron]

Mike- Ive been racking my brain to figure out the best way to put vac on that woods and I think Ive decided to just run a generator with an sp22 and a deepwell pump for this year. Real hard to access spot. Going to do something different eventually but for this year Im thinking that is the easiest. Its around 3000 feet from anything. Theres probly 1000 taps for this year and Im guessing 2000 taps total. All reds but lots of pretty nice ones with good exposure. No electric anywhere around. I got a lapierre vacuum sap pump that I will probably put there eventually but I don't really have enough vacuum pump right now on that main woods to run it and the other 3- 4000 taps plus the 1000 back there. Keep plugging away. Theron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Theron,

Put it all on 3/16 and be done with it. If you have good slope, you will get as much sap as with a vacuum pump. Put you a 1.5" line back to sugarhouse and get you a cheap 1.5" pump and just go up and pump it back to the sugarhouse. Probably rig up a level sensor that shuts off pump when it runs out of sap.

[BreezyHill]

Theron, Since 1971 we were buckets til lae 70's when dad installed the first ladder to gather about 50 below the sugar house. Rest ran to two road side tanks until 1990's. When they kept getting vandalized he concentrated on the sloped bushes to the SH and only +- 100 on a ladder til he got to just over 2K. After 2000 he started to cut back until he died in 2010. We are in the prosses of retubing everything. The main bush should be at 1200 for '16 season with around 14 ladders to get everything to the sugar house. In 2018 we plan to grow of the farm to some close bushes. I am not looking forward to hauling sap again but I will have help to keep things under control. Satalite generators and vac motors are a nightmare. but I will have a full time motor tech in house and he will likely be the one collection the sap most of the time. The hauling truck will have a fuel tank on it as well. 12 volt LEDs for lights and security system.

When crunch the numbers for the time spent and expenses I can vacuum sap over 2 miles for less than satalite systems and hauling. With what my motor tech is getting paid now on an internship and what they offered him to come back each summer til he grads and then start full time It is more like 5 miles. But he will start with 12 weeks vacation and he is thinking of sugaring for 6 of the 12 weeks.

I think your answer is all in Steve's charts...big pump and a big W/D system to provide vac and pull it all back to the sugar house. It wont be cheap but if the reds are worth the investment then tap those reds.

I have a CFM meter and I have hooked up several rolls of tubing to see if my meter is close to the charts and while mine is analog it is super close to what Steve got. As with all plans you have to start some where.

So just set your mind to the task and build your system with as few corner fittings and stay in the parameters.

A laser level is a great tool when combined with a good range finder to get your slope marked out for the mains. I did this last season and it was a huge time saver over the optic level and transit pole. Put a reflective vest on your partner for better accuracy than sighting on trees. If working alone a hand full of white 3x5 card and tacks work well.

[WestfordSugarworks]

I know this post is old, but we are setting up a new woods and we are putting in 2200 of 3" pipe (I think thats how many feet), which then drops down to 2 inches. We borrowed Steve Childs book from a friend and that has been helpful. From what I understand, wet/dry setups have been more or less of a guessing game up until recently. I recommend the book to anyone setting up a new woods. It's amazing the amount of cfms that one loses over a long stretch of undersized tubing. I am in the process of reading Childs book and trying to get the best understanding I can of vacuum transfer and cfm transfer.