Residential stand-by Generator questions

[tuckermtn]

so we are looking at a Kohler 20kw propane generator to power our house (auto-transfer switch, pad, surge protector, online monitoring, etc...a deluxe install B/c I need something bomb-proof with my heath issues)

Got a quote from a local generator pro who our electrician works with. now i have no idea if his estimate is high or reasonible, etc... $7,700 installed , not including propane tank or site work to prep pad and bury conduit to the barn.

figured there is bound to be some Traders with generator experience?

thanks-

Eric

[dogpatch]

I have a 20kw Generac for my house.Your quote is exactly what I paid a couple of years ago. I had the propane tank for the house already. No issues with mine.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I would say thats on par with what I would charge, think I did a 3500 for about half that cost or a little less a few years ago. your typical biggest motor load you need to be careful about is well pump and a 20kw is more than you need

[Amber Gold]

Do you want to run the sugarhouse off of it? If so, you may need to go bigger so you can run the RO, evap. and some lights at a min.

[buckeye gold]

I have had several set up in the past. To positively size a unit you need to do a load evaluation, which means you look at the start up amperage of everything you want to run on emergency power. You add all those up as if they all started at once(which rarely is the case) so your covered for worse case scenarios. Your biggest load will come from electric heating, water heaters, air conditioning and so forth. A good 20Kw unit with an auto transfer with full monitoring should be around $4500.00 - $5.000.00. Installation will vary by what work is necessary to mount and hookup everything. The last one I had done at my old job was a 60Kw with built in fuel tank, so there was no expense for installing fuel, cost me roughly $3,000.00 for all parts of installation. That was 10 years ago so I think your quote is probably in line with current professional prices. You could probably find a better price, but if having it "done the best and most bullet proof" is high priority then pay the pros their price.

[WMF]

The guys at www.smokstak.com have tons of info on generators if you are still shopping around. You could spend days going over the various generator forums over there.
In a nutshell they consider 3600 rpm generators as noisy and disposable if they have to run for more than a few hours a year. They say quality long service life generators are 1800 rpm and I tend to agree based on real world experience.

[tuckermtn]

Josh - no, just looking to run the house, not sugarhouse.

thanks for all the input so far...

[DrTimPerkins]

Since most of my travel for work is during the winter months, we had a Generac 10kw residential unit put in several years ago. Works great, but isn't quiet for sure. Not a big problem where we live. It's a great feeling to know that when the power goes out, 1 min later it'll automatically come back on again.

The only issue we had with installation was with the propane company. Despite telling them we needed a high-pressure regulator when arranging for the install, they insisted that a normal (low pressure) appliance regulator was all that was needed. Worked fine all summer and fall (during the weekly "exercise" periods), but when we got to really cold weather in the winter it wouldn't start. Had to have them come back (after arguing with them about it a lot), pull out the low pressure regulator and put in the REQUIRED high pressure regulator....with the added advantage of getting to pay them to do it again the right way. Has worked fine ever since with regular annual maintenance.

It is a very odd feeling to be sitting there with the lights on watching TV when all the rest of the neighborhood is dark. We've had neighbors come over to get water (their well pumps don't work), watch the news, and to store breast milk from their freezer they didn't want to lose.

[maple flats]

I had a similar issue concerning the pressure regulator when I had a big tank installed. One appliance called for high pressure and I told them. They put on a lower pressure one. It was mid fall and the temp was somewhere in the 30's. I told them it would not work, but they insisted it would. I had a 1" black pipe mainline along one wall of the sugarhouse and I had take offs for my canner, a weed burner (to light the arch), my finisher, 2 turkey friers if needed and a tankless hot water heater. I said OK, but don't leave, I'm going to light all the things that could be running at the same time. I already had some syrup in the canner and finisher to process as soon as they got it going. The finisher called for high pressure, everything else was low pressure so as each appliance came off the mainline I had the appropriate regulator. I started at the canner, then the torch was not turned on, then the tankless heater, and then as I turned on the finisher, the canner went out. I tried it again and the same thing. The propane co. finally took off the low pressure regulator and put on a HP one. Then everything worked properly. I then lit one turkey frier burner and lit the weed burner torch so everything except a second turkey frier was running and they all had good flames. I did not need to pay them to change it to the correct regulator.
When you get your propane genny connected, insist they use the one specified in the spec sheet for the genny. Realize that propane also evaporates differently as the temp of the tank falls. What may run OK at 30 or above, may not at -10 F or colder. I don't know why they fight the use of HP regulators when specified to the appliance paperwork.
One real good perk with propane is that it burns clean and never gets stale like gasoline does. Just make sure you have a tank large enough to run the genny 24/7 for at least 14 days if the need arises. In that time you could get a refill if necessary, especially if you have them put you on the priority list because of medical necessity.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

It is a very odd feeling to be sitting there with the lights on watching TV when all the rest of the neighborhood is dark. We've had neighbors come over to get water (their well pumps don't work), watch the news, and to store breast milk from their freezer they didn't want to lose.

I open all the shades and turn lights and ceiling fans on so as to create the lights flickering outside, turn on music to back yard yea I know im a dink.

Guys on FD used to show up for coffee.

[BreezyHill]

[QUOTE=Flat Lander Sugaring;284553]I open all the shades and turn lights and ceiling fans on so as to create the lights flickering outside, turn on music to back yard yea I know im a dink.
QUOTE]

How is reminding people the benefits of planning is "being a dink"

Nobody plans to fail...They just fail to plan.

We can throw a couple switches and our Feed mill gen set will power the entire farm. Several times I have lent out our portable generators to friends when we have had prolonged outages...ya know not one of them has bought their own generator. Both units were returned not running. Now they are projects for my son to repair.

It is a different world we live in...takes a different way of teaching the old lessons of preparation...Keep up the education!

[maple flats]

I don't lend equipment to those who won't fix it if it fails when they use it. However I did lend a 1 man post hold auger that never came back and I can't recall who it was. I bought another and will no longer loan, with very few exceptions.
On the ones that came back not running, my first guess is that they used bad gas.

[BreezyHill]

It was bad gas, he drained a truck and a tractor to fuel it for the 10 days he used it. The other I don't know the same storm had the area out of power for 10 days. It smelled old and I drained it and with fresh it wound not start. Cody enjoys doing carb work that he learned at Morrisville. Currently he is doing heavy equipment and doesn't have time so the weekends he does that stuff.

Just got the Maple Syrup Production stats for the last 3 seasons from the USDA in the mail. Some odd numbers. Visit www.nass.usda.gov for the digital copy for Northeast Production

I know when I was talking with Blair he noted he was getting some odd results from producers....abnormally high bulk sales and high retail sales. I explained how we went from 95% bulk back in 2009 to 90% retail for 2014 and plans to increase our taps each of the next seasons for the next 5-7 years to meet demand. After that depends on the results of my son that is headed to college for a degree in marketing. Current results from precollege classes and input from my future daughter in law getting an Ag Business degree has been great.
Sorry about the off thread discussion.

[maple flats]

Breezy, Morrisville is a good school. I have 2 sons who work there and a grandson who is on work study there. I also shoot trap every Sunday with someone who might have been one of your son's teachers, Fred Bach. He teaches ag mechanics there.

[unc23win]

We have a Generac propane and love it and have had it about 4 years no issues at all. We got a deal through the electric co-op. There is nothing better than knowing you have power to run the outdoor stove not to mention the whole house in a winter storm. Should have gotten one a long time ago.

[BreezyHill]

Flats, Cody knows him well, great teacher. He asked Cody to shoot with him some time. I have been pleased with the school for the last two years for teaching and for 20 years prior for supplying judges to Cornell for 4-H Horse competitions.

[Zucker Lager]

Hey UNC23WIN
What model generac did you buy? I"m thinking about getting a propane generator and don't like the thought of buying chinese made. I think that generac is made here in WI? thanks Jay

[maple flats]

Flats, Cody knows him well, great teacher. He asked Cody to shoot with him some time. I have been pleased with the school for the last two years for teaching and for 20 years prior for supplying judges to Cornell for 4-H Horse competitions.
Did he shoot with Fred? I've met a few of his students over the past year. I may have met Cody, but unfortunately I don't recall a Cody. Sometimes Fred brings new shooters and my memory fails me with names. I'd like to blame that on 68 yrs, but in reality I forgot names 20 yrs ago too. It amazes me when someone is introduced once and they remember that person's name even when the don't meet again for a long time, that was never my strong point.

[maple flats]

By the way, if Cody does come shoot with us sometime, please have him tell me (Dave Klish) that he is Breezy's son. If he does that I don't think I'll forget his name.
Dave

[unc23win]

Hey UNC23WIN
What model generac did you buy? I"m thinking about getting a propane generator and don't like the thought of buying chinese made. I think that generac is made here in WI? thanks Jay

I believe its a Guardian 20KW with the whole house switch. Yes they are made in WI not sure if that is entirely or not. I think the prices are very good and very reliable units ours was used within 48 hours of installation we had a bad thunderstorm knock the power out it comes on automatically within a minute. Auto starts itself and runs for 10 minutes every Wednesday morning.

[1arch]

so we are looking at a Kohler 20kw propane generator to power our house (auto-transfer switch, pad, surge protector, online monitoring, etc...a deluxe install B/c I need something bomb-proof with my heath issues)

Got a quote from a local generator pro who our electrician works with. now i have no idea if his estimate is high or reasonible, etc... $7,700 installed , not including propane tank or site work to prep pad and bury conduit to the barn.

figured there is bound to be some Traders with generator experience?

thanks-

Eric

20 kW is a lot of power for a residence. 80+ amps so I would anticipate your typical needs are covered unless you are welding, running air compressor, pumping water and air conditioning and more all at the same time.
From an installers perspective I believe the price quoted is quite reasonable.
I live Minutes from where Kohler gensets are manufactured and have also interconnected solar and battery storage to these generator systems.
Energy storage is developing at a pace similar to cell phone technology....
Enjoy your energy independence !

[OldManMaple]

Eric,
Check into buying your tank if you don't own it already. Expensive up front but saves money over time. Also lets you shop the market at refill time. I pay 20 cents over rack price. Btw Rhymes has had the best price for the last 4 years.

[tuckermtn]

OldMan- yes I was anticipating that I would have to buy my tank, but had not thought about the bonus of being able to shop around. thanks for the heads-up...