Soldered WJC Mod's

[Amber Gold]

So I don't like the valves that came with my new to me canner...they foam way too much. I want to convert it to 1/2" ball valves with a downspout, but if I do this, it'll put the spout beyond the shelf. My idea is to eliminate the vent pipe (vertical 3/4" Cu pipe) from the piping. Does the vent pipe serve any purpose? Not one that I can think of. The canner is soldered, so don't want to try this with a torch...the mounting plate (wraps around the bottom, so it's L-shaped) that's soldered to the outer tank would likely melt. Bill doesn't know this yet, but he's done some solder repair work for me on other stuff. Do you think those big soldering irons can get the tee hot enough to pop it off, and then get the elbow hot enough to solder it back on (less the tee). I have no experience with soldering s/s maple equipment, so I don't know how easily it is to melt the solder in surrounding areas when doing work in a nearby area. I do know that one of the solder joints mounting plate is cracked and leaking, so it needs some solder repair work anyways, but I don't want to turn a little problem into a big problem.

Also, that angle iron frame around the tank is riveted (I think) into the tank, and some of the rivets are leaking. Not bad, just a couple drips once in a while. Any good way to fix those?

Any way, or reason to, clean the scale up on the water portion of the canner? I'm guessing many years of either hard water or iron in the water has created a brown scale inside the tank.

Thanks

[maple flats]

What make is your water jacketed canner? Do you have any idea how old it is? Do any of the pictures in your gallery on your website show the WJC you are trying to alter/fix? If yes, what is that pic. labeled and which page is it on?

[Super Sapper]

Fill the water jacket with cold water and use the torch. This should keep everything else from getting hot enough to melt.

[Amber Gold]

It's a Small Bros. I don't remember seeing a build date on it, but guessing it's a mid-90's. I was told it's lead free solder, but haven't tested it personally. I just got it, so that's the best picture I have of it. I'll get more pics.

SS, I like your idea. If I fill the jacket up, then I can remove the tee w/out melting the mounting plate solder. Think I can use a torch on it at that point?

[Cedar Eater]

I'm not seeing a picture of it in this thread. Is it set to private in your photobucket?

[Super Sapper]

Heating the Tee with a torch should not heat the solder from the outer jacket in as the water will act as a heat sink.

[Amber Gold]

Oops. Thought I'd attached it to the first message. See below. The thread should make more sense now.

SS. Do you think the water jacket will keep the solder melting where the copper pipe penetrates the mounting plate? There's not a lot of pipe between the tee and where the pipe penetrates the jacket.

11818

[maple flats]

Now looking at the picture, I think I might do it with no soldering, but you could pull the stand pipe off without damaging the connection thru the canner sidewall. To do that, just remove everything except the last elbow out beyond that T where the stand pipe goes up, then hold the torch on the middle of the tee, while gently pulling outward with a pair of pliers on the elbow. When the solder lets loose, immediately put a wet rag on the remainder. As an extra safety if you are still hesitant, get a thick shoelace, soak it in water, and wrap it around the copper up against the canner. When using the torch, hold the torch head as close as possible to the canner and have the flame heading away from the canner as much as possible. Heat it from the bottom and do not have your unprotected hand where solder can drip on it.
As for what purpose the stand pipe serves, my guess is that it helps you monitor the syrup level and maybe the previous owner thought it would reduce "water hammer" but that would not even be a issue here. (water hammer is the force on pipes when a pressurized liquid flow is stopped suddenly, this would effectively have no pressure except the weight of the syrup inside the canner)


My method, if I'm seeing it correctly is to remove the existing valves, put a street ell in it's place, then attach a ball valve on each street tee. Then you can open each valve as much as you need without getting the foam. The amount will depend largely on the bottle or jug size you are filling.
While I only have a single outlet on mine, I start with a 1/2" ball valve which then has a foot operated electric valve then an elbow and when I fill jugs or bottles, I step on the foot control for the electric valve (maple guys handsfree system) and I open the ball valve to adjust the flow. Once set, the ball valve stays at that setting for all the containers of that size. You should be able to do similar but you may want to raise the canner to keep the final valve at a comfortable height. You could have 2 ball valves, one to open all the way, the other to adjust the flow. Then just open and close the lower valve until that size is finished. Then repeat it on the next size. I find that the smaller the container the slower the flow needs to be to not have a foam issue.

[Cedar Eater]

I've done a fair amount of sweated copper plumbing, and I think you could pull that tee, put the vent pipe on one end port of the tee, throw out the elbow, put the manifold on the other end port of the tee, and connect the center port of the tee back to the spout pipe. I would put very cold water in the water jacket, place a metal shield on the face of the canner (aluminum foil would do, wrap the spout pipe with a thin wet rag and pop that tee off. I would then quench the spout pipe immediately with a wet rag. When you go to put it back together, wrap a wet rag around the nearby joints you've already set and they should not get hot enough to melt the solder.

The only function I can think of for that vent pipe is to serve as an overflow. When you fill the canner with syrup and then heat it, the syrup will expand a little, and possibly enough to overflow somewhere. You will want that to be in the most convenient place to notice it and clean it up.

[wiam]

It's a Small Bros. I don't remember seeing a build date on it, but guessing it's a mid-90's. I was told it's lead free solder, but haven't tested it personally. I just got it, so that's the best picture I have of it. I'll get more pics.

SS, I like your idea. If I fill the jacket up, then I can remove the tee w/out melting the mounting plate solder. Think I can use a torch on it at that point?

I have an email from Gerry at Lapierre in Quebec. Hope this helps with lead question.
Thanks for your reply message. The blue sticker ''equipemnt'' was made up to 1985 and before. I was working for Small Brothers in Dunham factory between 1980 and the end of 1989.
Back then with the blue sticker equipment was soldered with 50/50 Lead solder.
You may want to get a Lead Test kit in a plumbing store or they might have some in the Lapierre USA store in Swanton, Vt. ??? I'm not sure. Their phone no is; 802-868-2328.

The gold stickers were implemented in 1985 when Small Brothers opened their Swanton, Vt. Distribution Center.

As you can see I am fully aware of the Small Bros history during that period.

Have a great evening.

Gerry Dion
LWS.

[Super Sapper]

The vent pipe serves no real purpose that I can see. As far as it being safe to use a torch, it would be the same as using a soldered pan. The liquid keeps the solder cool enough so it will not melt the solder. I would pull out the tee and solder in a ball valve, but make sure the handle rotates out to open or you could have problems.

[Amber Gold]

Wiam, what does a gold sticker mean? Guessing post-1985, but is that when they went lead free?

[Amber Gold]

If I pull the vent tee off (which is a short socket tee) there will be a one inch gap between the water jacket and the end of the elbow socket. Basically, the elbow is going to slide further onto the nipple sticking out of the jacket than the tee currently is.

I took some measurements last night, and removing that tee brings the manifold about 2" closer to the canner and gets me pretty close to where I need to be so the big jugs fit on the shelf. I need to get some fittings and do a mock-up manifold w/ valve assembly and see where it'll really end up, but this will turn into a weekend project. I have a lot of syrup to bottle Friday night, and don't want to mess with it now in case things head south.

[Super Sapper]

You could also valve each side of the manifold.

[wiam]

Wiam, what does a gold sticker mean? Guessing post-1985, but is that when they went lead free?

The way I understand is that yes gold sticker is after 1985 when they went to lead free solder. Blue means lead solder.

[Cedar Eater]

If you want to gain additional height, there are 45 degree elbows and sharper 90 degree elbows (or just go with no elbow). Then you would have more room to angle your ball valves if necessary.

[Amber Gold]

I thought about one valve controlling two discharge points, but then I thought it'd be an issue if one flows a bit faster than another.

[maple flats]

For multiple outlets I'd have 1 valve control everything and then a separate valve for each outlet, yes, it would be very hard to use 1 valve for 2 or more outlets, at least 2 factors to influence the flow, 1. temperature, the first will be slightly hotter than second. 2. line friction, the longer distance gets more friction. Even if you tried to set each up so the distance and # of elbows is the same, just look at the flow thru a ball valve, as you open it, until fully open if you do go fully open, the flow is more to one side, then as you close the valve the same thing. Then if you solder it (lead free of course), just a little more solder in one elbow than the other can influence it too.