Building manifolds

[Ryan Mahar]

Hey all! What's the best way you are building manifolds for wet/dry line applications? Have seen the 'poor man ' method and that is what I would like to use. So one section of 1 inch pipe t'd off mainline and then T'd into dry line. Seems too easy. Any advice? Thanks...

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[unc23win]

That picture is using what is called the whip method not really a manifold. Whips are becoming more common practice especially if used like in the picture where the dry line is running perpendicular to wet lines which are each then tied in individually. Manifolds are more common where multiple lines have one common junction that is supplied by the same wet and dry lines. Both methods are used by many producers. The only thing I would do differently than in the picture would be to install valves and gauges at any junction so that vacuum can be isolated, which will help find leaks additional cost and set up now = less time looking for leaks later.

[wiam]

I plan to use this whip method for any new installs in my woods. I also agree on gauges. I do not understand the short piece of black pipe. Looks like an extra connector. Less connectors means less possible leaks.

[Ryan Mahar]

The short piece is not needed. Thanks for reply. Do you know of any negative reasons in using this method??

[JoeJ]

I use the whip method also with a ball valve and vacuum gauge. A lot of producers do not use gauges, but for myself, the gauges and ball valves are the easiest way to detect even the slightest drop in vacuum level on a mainline. Shut the valve off, wait ten seconds. It does not take long for even a small leak to drop the vacuum level at 26" or 27". If there is no drop in vacuum level, move on to the next one.

Otherwise, my only comment on the picture is that I would not use plastic ball valves. I probably put 15- 20 of the plastic ball valves in 10 years ago and the handles on every one broke.

[maple flats]

I have both, my earlier method was all large manifolds with the mainline coming in a little below mid point into a larger size (most were 3/4 and 1 mains into 1.5-2" vertical sections of the manifold), then the sap went down to a 1 or 1.25" wet line and the air (gases) rose to the dry line. For manifolds my earlier were all white PVC, then I started using the reinforced clear PVC tees with blue tubing connecting everything. My newer method is to use the whip type, it seems to work as well for me, is cheaper to make, faster to make and holds up better if a tree falls on a line. Over the years I had a few of the 1st type break when a tree fell, but have never lost a whip type yet, in 3 years using that method. I have had valves on both, but this year I got a bunch of gauges, so every main will have a gauge at the whip AND at the far end. Before I only had gauges a some but not all of the far ends. The more you can isolate and check the vacuum, the faster it will be to locate and fix leaks.

[BreezyHill]

What appears to work best for me to get the most CFMs to the last tap and find leaks quickest is manifolds made of 2" or 3" pvc. It is very easy to drill and tap the pvc wall to accompodate threaded fittings. The added volume works for a balance tank, provides the easiest separation of sap and gasses, is a reservoir for any sap surge to reduce the amount of sap that enters the dry line, and provides a location for a system vac gauge to see the results of a repaired leak on the system.

The whip in the pic does not provide for quick and easy flow to the dry line and will reduce the CFM transfer to the lat during a surge that starts sap up the line, and sap transfer to the dry line is hampered.

The Tee connections also reduce sap and vac flow duce to turbulence reducing flows by 20% and higher depending on the amount of flow from the lateral and in the main.

The best tool to reduce turbulence is a manifold with Y or K connections to act as a venturi to join the two flows.


Remember, your goal is to have the best flow of the lines to the releaser and the taps for the vac.

[Moser's Maple]

this is what my whips looks like. have had very good luck with this method.

[unc23win]

Howdy Jake you beat me to pics more of the same here. I am actually starting to install some today gonna use some stainless Ys for the first time.

I attached pictures shared by Generalstark from a new installation of a larger producer in Vermont one is a booster/manifold and the other is whips as you can see they they used Ts and made sure the lines were much different in height to encourage the sap to go the way they wanted it to. It is interesting to me that they did not use valves and gauges every where. If they are close to you I would go visit. 1179211793

[Moser's Maple]

hey Jared. guess what..... I have a few more, plus I have a true poor man's booster. What can I saw there has been a lot of trial in error in my woods. The second whip was done with cdl pvc fittings. they are a nice fitting, but switching to ss this summer, because my line pulled apart in this section over the winter. money was running short at the time of the install.

[maple flats]

My whips look much like Mosier's Maple except they arch higher before they come back down into the dry line. I do however like the booster set up. Nice work.
For the whip, use y's not tees to reduce turbulence, as Mosier shows, to exit the main and to enter the wet and dry. They are harder to install, but worth the effort.

[GeneralStark]

Howdy Jake you beat me to pics more of the same here. I am actually starting to install some today gonna use some stainless Ys for the first time.

I attached pictures shared by Generalstark from a new installation of a larger producer in Vermont one is a booster/manifold and the other is whips as you can see they they used Ts and made sure the lines were much different in height to encourage the sap to go the way they wanted it to. It is interesting to me that they did not use valves and gauges every where. If they are close to you I would go visit. 1179211793


Valves and gauges get pretty expensive on an 11k tap system (out of 40k total). They did incorporate valves in most junctions, but the only vac. gauges in the woods are on their boosters.

[unc23win]

Valves and gauges get pretty expensive on an 11k tap system (out of 40k total). They did incorporate valves in most junctions, but the only vac. gauges in the woods are on their boosters.

I am sure they are and I would guess with larger operations like that valves and gauges are less affective anyhow.

[DrTimPerkins]

this is what my whips looks like. have had very good luck with this method.

Looks like you were trying to use as many colors of mainline as possible. :) Nice installation though.

[Moser's Maple]

Looks like you were trying to use as many colors of mainline as possible. :) Nice installation though.
we are small enough that we like trying to give all our manufactures some income through sales that's why we have 4 different tubing manufacturers. I also found it was nice using different manufacturers to see what tubing I liked to work with the best, so in future expansions I know who I would like to use. We have also found it's nice for visitors to see the different manufacturers tubing to see what they may like the best also.

[Ryan Mahar]

So, after consulting with Leader , (since wet dry lines are new to me) , they highly advised AGAINST whip. Primary problem is with high vacuum, sap ends up getting sucked up into the loop and going in to the dry line, but then never exits until at the releaser. With the traditional t- styles ( many ways to do it, they did not recommend one over the other really) at least when sap gets moved up into the dry line, it simply exits at the next manifold connection. They claim the whip results in the 'dry' line almost always having sap which defeats the purpose.................some of you experienced 'whip' users must have a reply for on this right??? thank you..

[Moser's Maple]

only time I've noticed sap in my whips is when the wet line may be froze after one of those quick hard spring freezes, or on start up on the gas pump after it ran out of gas and the wet line is full because I'm emptying my sap ladder that was backed up. This is just my experience on our little operation, on a side note I have been yielding around 23 gallons of sap per tap since going to the wet/dry system with whips.... not the highest yield by far, but I'm still pretty happy with those yields

[maple flats]

my experience is the same, but my vacuum almost never exceeds 21" (except when most lines are frozen solid) on one bush and on the other it is regulated down to 19" to protect the vacuum tank which could implode at higher levels. I very rarely see any sap in the dry line.

[BreezyHill]

I would agree with some of the premise of the theory; but if the connection was more toward the dry lines height and an angled line at a slope up to the dry line you will reduce the amount of sap in the dry line from surges. Sap in the whip line will tend to drain back toward the lateral.

One could also do a drop line from the dry to the wet with Ys a distance after the whip or multiple whips to clear the dry line as much as possible. But this will add the location of possible leaks in the future. If one has the time and tools making manifolds of pvc is pretty easy and inexpensive.

[GeneralStark]

I have been using whips on high vac. (27.5") for several years and the only time I have seen sap go up the whip to the dry line is when the wet line is frozen. I do loop the whip connection at least 2' above the height of the dry line.

Now, if your mainlines are not sloped correctly or sized correctly and they are filling with sap, then this may be an issue, but otherwise it will work fine on high vac. assuming a proper design and installation.

I have been advised by several sugarmakers with high yields to never take advice for tubing system set-up from Leader. I know a guy locally that followed their advice and he strung a 3/4" mainline through a field and didn't support it well so it was full of sags. They told him it would be fine as the vac. would pull the sap through the lines...

[maple flats]

My whips are at least 18" fairly up and most are 2' up above the dry line. Again I never saw sap in the dry line except when the wet line was frozen and full of sap.
My preference for the whip style rather than the big volume PVC method is mostly because of the forgiving nature of thw whip method. If a tree or limb lands on the wet/dry, the manifold suffers much easier than the whip method. My thinking is that this factor and the possibility of sap in the dry line, trumps the manifold method with sap leaking all over the ground when the manifold breaks, loses all the sap and the vacuum drops to at or near zero.