Surge alamo pump

[mountain man maple]

Can anyone tell me what this pump might be? Seller knows nothing about it.

[murferd]

Great pump, depends on width of it & size of motor. I've had a 75 for 10 years or so & works great. Google"Surge Alamo" & it lists all the different models & their physical sizes.

[Dennis H.]

Need more pics.

The width was one of the things that made them different.

[BreezyHill]

Alamo pumps come in two body configurations: Small & Large
Body is the housing for the rotor the smaller unit is the 30 & 40 series.
The larger body is the 50 thru 100+ series.

To go from the 50 up to 100+ is a change in pump rpm and motor size. 100+ can be either direct drive or a belt drive system.

To measure the body you can put a tape from bolt head to bolt head of the face cover parallel to the drive shaft.

Rebuild kits for all are available and fairly easy to accomplish.

One of the best features of these units are the reclaimer that came with the original pump. For maple a slight modification is desired for oil cooling but is easily done.

[mountain man maple]

All info seller gave is 2.4 or 3 hp electric motor. And one photo it looked like intake and exhaust had 1" pipe.

[BreezyHill]

1" pipe would be a 40 Alamo unit...small body. 4" vane

If the price is right get it. If it has an electric motor all the better those things are getting out of hand now days. If it has the reclaimer then definitely get it.

[mountain man maple]

Can this pump be oil flooded? Is it capable of 27-28"?

[BreezyHill]

That is a loaded question!
Yes it can be oil flooded with a dripper system.
The pump can do that vac level if it is in good order. Without seeing the pump first hand I cant know the condition. But it should be able to be refurbished to reach these readings.

If she spins over freely and when you look in the housing ports if it is not rusty and flaking then she should be fine. If flaky then she will need a date with a hone and an air grinder to get back into shape. So then we need to look at the face plates and if they are smooth you will be home free. Bearings and possible new vanes and she will be up and ready to go.

Whats it worth will be your next question and I always say as little as possible. I like to do a two teir deal. If the pump is rough then you give him say $50-100 and if she cleans up easy give him a gallon of syrup if not so easy give a quart. The second year you can give him another gallon and word will travel that you are a great guy to deal with. To me it is a great investment in finding more equipment in the future. Old farmers still talk and I have one that looks for stuff for me. He gets a maple finders fee. I think he grew a sweet tooth for maple.

Send pics of the unit if you can and I welp do what I can for you.

Ben

[mountain man maple]

Pump is a little over a two hour drive asking price is 350. If pump and motor spins I think its worth that.

[maple flats]

Sorry, I hit the wrong tab, I did not edit the above post.
I have 2 Alamo pumps, One is a 30-40, the other is a 50-100. I paid $300 from the farmer for each of then, different farmers, different times. For those prices I got the frame, pump, oil reclaimer, and the canister that the pump pulls the air from (not really a moisture trap), and each was all mounted on the frame. Each came with an electric motor, but I removed the motors and mounted a Honda gas engine on them.

[BreezyHill]

Pump is a little over a two hour drive asking price is 350. If pump and motor spins I think its worth that.

Yes motors now days are rather pricey.

The non moisture trap is a balance tank and will work nicely as a condensation element as long as it doesn't get warm from the pump in a small building.

Alamo's are really setup well when they have their original reclaimer.

That is an average price for them. I am cheap and don't mind spending time to fix ones that need some TLC...not into the ones that need life support and major surgery. That gets to time consuming.

Good Luck Mtn Man!

[mountain man maple]

Pump, motor and frame they are mounted on is all that comes with it. I will have to build oil reclaimer.

[mountain man maple]

I bought the pump it is the 4" body motor is 1.65 hp I believe. Would that make it a 30 cfm model?

[BreezyHill]

With that bocy if you spin it at the pump at an rpm of 1025 then it will be considered a Alamo 40. This is suggest to have a 2.4 hp motor. The 1.65 was on the Alamo 30 pump setup. Same pump body just a slower rpm and the CFM of the 40 is in the 20 area.

The Alamo number was relative to the herd size and was relative to the number of claws that were used at one time. A bucket milker operates on +- 8cfm and a claw uses less due to not needing to evacuate a 5 gal or larger bucket to start milk flow.

[mountain man maple]

Wanting to get started building reclaimer and flooding this pump. I have a basic idea how to build the reclaimer but I'm unsure how much oil this pump can handle. Is it ok to just run 1/4" copper to bearings and inlet of pump or do I need to meter it into bearings and inlet?

[BreezyHill]

Meter thru drippers to each bearing and to the inlet. To much oil can cause heat due to friction from the earing being flooded with oil and the oil is forced around in the bearing and causes extreme heat situation. The dripper is fed thru the copper line from the reclaimers oil filtration system.

I will try to take apart a reclaimer so you can see the setup in the am.

Ben

[mountain man maple]

Where is a good source for the oil metering fitting? How much oil should bearings get? How much should the inlet of pump get?

[BreezyHill]

20-40 dripps per minute is normal adjustment. Less than 20 means a malfunction and the system will need to be check and likely cleaned. OIl change in a dairy setting is recommended every 2000 hours or annually.

Source of drippers. That is a tough one. For inexpensive drippers look on ebay and amazon. I got a case of 2x drippers for $35. From dairy sources a 3x setup is over $100.

For flooding the pump it depends. Some pumps like their oil while others of the same model will heat up with half that oil. I use a noncontact laser style thermometer to record the temp of the pump and get the highest vac I can and not get the pump over 200 degrees F I also do not like to run the pump less than 160-170. I have one pump that runs in this range all the time. When it is the lower reading there is a fair amount of water in the system to drain every day. When warmer there is less. When it gets to 175 there is none. On another pump keeping the temp down is the issue. To much oil in the inlet and it heats up to 210. Just an extra quarter turn of the valve on the dripper and she will go from 190 to 210. I only gain 1" vac so I go with the lower temp.


One must be careful to not get air entrapment in the oil to the bearings as this will cause a failure of the bearing. Nice drips of good clean oil is what you need. have a valve between the oil and the filter cartridge so you can change a dirty filter and not loose the oil.

Remember that cooler oil will drip slower than warm oil. I like to setup a pump when cold so it gets its minimum supply and when the oil warms it will flow more and cool the pump better.

Remember we are pumping air and not oil. extra oil is working the pump and creating heat so to much in the flood will generate heat.

Flood near the pump and be certain your check valve on the inlet is between the dripper and the water trap. The water trap will catch oil that can be pulled toward the releaser on shut down or when the trap gets full.

Pitch the vac line to the pump is a great design so that oil is less likely to reach the check valve or the water trap. Anything more than level is good.

Ben

[BreezyHill]

11784 Release the clasp bolt that secures the top to the bottom.

11785 Remove the top and reveal the Reclaimer filter top.

11786 Loosen the top bolt and then the reclaimer filter is ready for inspection/cleaning.

The last pic below is the exhaust tube from the pump.

There are two ports on the bottom; one drain and one where the dripper feed tube or dripper manifold is connected

You can drill a hole in the bottom and braze or weld in a retainer nut for a drain and a line for a filtration system to feed the drippers.

Ben

[mountain man maple]

Will drip oiler be sufficient to run 26"+. Will I need more than the 1.65 hp electric motor to run the pump at that level of vacuum?

[BreezyHill]

Dripper in the inlet will help to seal the vane to the housing and the face plate to get better or higher vac. The vac level will depend on the condition of the housing and face plates. If they are smooth than you should have no problem getting to around 26"; but if the housing is waved then even with oil you may not make it to 26" without honing the housing.

I would run the pump without the dripper and see what you can do. Oil from the bearings ends up on the vanes. As long as the unit does a good job then you don't need to run flood dripper in the inlet. If she is not at a level you can live with then add the oil and see what you can achieve. If still not enough then hone the housing may be needed of planning the face plates.

Honing is easy planning is not and requires tooling.

Can you post a pic of the pump? Some times you can see in the pump and see any scoring by looking at the vane and see ribs on the vane. If the vane has ribs then it is scored...but this is not always a killer if the vane has worn to the housing. It is like a scored rotor on a truck that the brake pad was worn to and wont vibrate and make the brake squeal in large trucks. We score rotors to stop this noise for years in the garage.

[mountain man maple]

How many hp gas motor would be needed to run this pump? Will the 3 hp predator motor be enough? How much gas per day would a motor capable of running this pump take?

[BreezyHill]

I knew a producer that had a similar pump setup and not sure the total gallons a day of fuel used but he only took a 5 gallon jug to refill each day.

You can usually find a fuel useage chart for motors and serial numbers to aid you more in this info.

A 3 hp should do the job but just needs to be geared/ pulleyed to the correct sizes to spin at a desired speed to consume as little fuel as possible but still meet the cfms desired.

[mountain man maple]

Just got pump put back together with a flood oil system. It pulled 26" on startup but I am having trouble getting bearing on pulley side of pump to draw oil. Oilers I picked up on ebay turned out to have a vent on one side of glass. This doesn't effect other 2 oilers ability to get oil. Is there less vacuum leaking out port on pulley side of vacuum pump that would make it harder to pull oil? Oil temp was around 50 degrees on startup. I'm using tractor supply vacuum pump oil. Oil level in tank is below vacuum pump so it will not gravity feed into pump.

[mountain man maple]

Here's how I set up the pump.

[lpakiz]

I use a 3.5 HP Tecunseh on a Surge SP-11. It is supplied with gasoline from 2 1/2 gallon steel can hung on a beam above the pump. It would run 22 hours on a can full of fuel, which may be more or less than 2 1/2 gallons.
I typically ran the motor at less than 1000 RPMS, and as low as 800 .

[BreezyHill]

There would be no difference in vac from side to side. The bearings that you got/installed were open with no grease seals? If there was a grease seal then you would have a difference. If not then I would take the dripper apart and see if there is an obstruction in the line and blow it out with compressed air.

The other test would be to switch the drippers to the other sides and see if there is a difference if there was no obstruction and they still were not even.

The pulley bearing will want more oil as in theory it will run hotter due to the tension of the belt...unless you have one of the old pulleys that was a fan built into the spokes of the pulley. to blow air on the pump.

Check your lines to be sure there is not a defect creating an obstruction. I had that issue one time. Use a length of mig weilder wire to snake thru the line. Or swap the lines to the drippers first.

Ben

[mountain man maple]

I have already switched lines it makes no difference. Pulley side doesn't have much air sucking through it. If u place finger over pipe that feeds bearing it won't even create a suction.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

my Alamo has a double seal on the pulley end and there is no vac there at all. I adjusted the drip to a minium or the oil runs down the outside on to the motor

[mountain man maple]

How high of vacuum did u run with your pump with sealed bearing? Right now I have pump up to 27.5" will I need to have oil running through bearing to keep bearings from seizing?

[mountain man maple]

Have a large body alamo I'm putting into service this year. I had taken it apart and cleaned everything up since it had been unused for years. Today I tested it and have it set up with flood oil. Only problem I have is oil seeping out of endplates. I didn't put any sealant on plates when I reassembled it. Are guys using sealant on these pumps normally?

[mountainvan]

I have 4 alamos and none of them have any sealant on the end plates. if the pump is pulling vacuum I would think it would not leak oil but pull in air.

[maple flats]

I use 2 alamo's, each with a 6.5HP Honda. On each I removed the original fuel tank and made a wooden stand that sets next to the engine and I then connect a 4.5 gal fuel tank ( https://www.surpluscenter.com/Engines/Engine-Accessories/Fuel-Tanks-Caps/4-5-GALLON-RED-FUEL-TANK-W-FUEL-SHUTOFF-VALVE-28-1836-R.axd ) The bottom of the tank is about 6" higher than the elevation of where the original tank was.
I fill the 4.5 gal to the top, and one pump lasts about 14 hrs (an Alamo 75) and the other lasts about 18 hrs (an Alamo 30). On each engine I run them at about 50% throttle or slightly under. The smaller pump has a single belt and the weight of the motor on a pivot holds the tension (but that is regulated to 20" vacuum because it is on a vacuum tank), the larger pump, needed a double belt and I had to use a 2.75" drive pulley or the motor was not powerful enough, plus that one needed extra tension of the belts slipped even with belt dressing. That one runs at 24-25" and it is tied to a releaser.
My 3rd pump is a BB4 (Babson Bros eventually became Surge) and it is a piston pump on an electric motor. It only gets 24-25", but I think I will bebuild it next summer and it should then get a little more vacuum.

[Clinkis]

Maple flats.....what size of pulleys are your running on your Surge Alamo 30 and what are your drippers set at? I just finished getting my system all together and it seems to be working good with the tests I've run. Just not sure if I've got it spinning fast enough and not exactly sure how many drops per minute for my bearings and flooding. I will post some pics later.

[mountain man maple]

I'm wondering if I put too much oil in intake and caused it to be pushed out end caps. How much oil should intake of vacuum pump have flowing to it? I have. 1/4" soft copper feeding both bearings and intake. Bearings have oilrite drippers that are not adjustable. The intake line I have a sightglass and 1/4" ball valve to regulate it.

[mountain man maple]

How is the best way to hookup incoming air to large body alamo with no threads? I used a rubber fernco and it failed after about 1.5 hrs of running tonight at 25" of vacuum.

[Clinkis]

Did it collapse? If so, you can try to reinforce the inside with PVC pipe.

[mountain man maple]

Yes it collapsed but so did all the pvc pipe including vacuum regulator distorting. Not sure if I use steel pipe and move pvc away if it will still work because the flex coupler is rated max 140 degrees.

[BreezyHill]

When I rebuild a pump I use a thin film of blue silicone to achieve the highest vac level the pump can produce. If the owner wants to reduce this amount install a regulator.

One must remember that there is a suction point and a compression point in the housing of a pump. Oil will seep out in the compression part of the pump if between the plate and the housing is the point of least resistance.

Check your exhaust. it needs to be free of restrictions and free flowing. A plugged reclaimer screen or steel mesh will cause a back pressure circumstance.

Use a section of metal pipe inplace of the pvc for the first 8-10". I install a tee for flood oil, then a check valve of brass and then a metal ball valve then go into the pvc. All these metal section dissipate heat and protect the pvc from failure.

Good Luck!
Ben