Cutting off trees to get sap. Its just wrong.

[red maples]

So now that maple season is over I have a chance to comment on this topic of a new style of collecting sap that is being developed and researched by UVM extension maple program.

Let me start by saying I do believe in technology and research in the maple industry. We are learning so much from what these folks are doing and it is very beneficial to the industry. There was an article in the maple news, about ethical practices in the maple industry, I believe from the cornell maple program, including Over tapping trees, tapping small trees, keeping maple production "looking good" to the public to keep the "good reputation" of the maple industry. Yet there is now a way to produce maple syrup by cutting the trees and capping the top and using vacuum to suck the sap.

I am sure I am alone in thinking that this is not the direction most sugarmakers want maple research to go. With the modern techonologies that many of us use, including myself, with vacuum tubing, RO's, Steamaways, etc. we can make maple syrup easier then ever before. Where 1000 or more taps can easily be handled by 1 person with a smaller evaporator with the proper setup. With big food production companies and big Agriculture, both with very deep pockets and world wide investors, could easily step in and purchase a large plot of land and begin to plant maple trees and begin "factory farming" maple syrup with in just a few years time. To me this is really scary for the entire maple industry. That being said with the way companies are developing GMO's this really opens the door for trees developed in a lab to maximize sugar in sap just for the purpose of a plantation/ field planting type of Maple Syrup Production.

This new method really destroys the ethical reputation of making maple syrup and being good stewards of nature that we all enjoy striving for.

[unc23win]

Well said Brad and I agree with you and I also understand that a lot comes from research and with that in mind I would say that it is one thing to do the research and it is another to actually publish the findings (and maybe they have to publish). I don't believe there is any good to come from cutting the tops off saplings at all and in my opinion it is not good for anything. I consider it unethical to say the least.

[TonyL]

What is the preferred "ethical" approach to making syrup? Where is the line drawn.....oil fired evaps, RO's, vacuum systems, tubing......all advances in maple syrup production. Another viewpoint might capitalize on sapling production by claiming less environmental impact to the sugarbush itself, with no need to drill older, established trees year after year, no equipment running through the woods collecting sap, maintaining lines, cutting trees. Just a bare spot of land with rows of topped saplings, producing sap, with no perceived damage to an already established woods, itself.

[DrTimPerkins]

Let me state from the onset that everyone is completely entitled to their own opinion. I agree that this method is very unconventional. As you can tell if you've spent any time speaking to other maple producers or reading this forum (and even recent newspaper articles), there are still ongoing discussions and debate about whether vacuum is a good thing, or even whether collection with tubing is a good thing, or whether maple producers should use RO. Different people draw the line in different places. We certainly have heard from some people who don't think this method should ever be used, and we've heard from people who want to try it. Our goal is not to push it on anyone....I personally consider it to be still research in progress. We're not advocating that people cut down their mature trees and plant maple saplings. We're not sure that anything will ever come of it. It sure works in theory, but you can't really tell how it'll turn out until it is tried in the field. As I said, we're not pushing it. In fact, we've been actively dissuading people from trying it fairly regularly.

In any case, whenever "disruptive" technology is introduced, it provokes a lot of thought, discussion and reactions from people. Anything new often faces a real hurdle of resistance. Many crops now are grown in ways that seemed very unusual, radical, and wrong when first introduced. Nut crops are one good example. Apple trees are another.....the technological changes in that area have been quite extensive....an orchard from 20 yrs ago looks nothing like the new style of orchards. Christmas tree plantations didn't exist 100 yrs ago, but are now quite widely accepted. Things change....what seems very odd today may be the norm tomorrow.

One of the reasons this method is being explored is to help producers in certain situations. Maybe your sugarbush was hit with ALB and had to be cut down. Perhaps an ice storm knocked down 75% of your trees. Maybe you're a small producer who can't find land around you to expand, or afford to buy another 100 acres of mature sugarbush. This method could perhaps get you back into the maple business within a reasonable amount of time, as opposed to stopping you from making syrup for good. Is it ethical for you to deny someone the ability to do this in those circumstances? If climate change continues, and this method allows people to continue making maple syrup in areas they could no longer commercially produce syrup, is it right to stop them from using technology?

As for plant breeding....that is fairly common with all plants -- even maple trees. There has been research to develop sweet maple trees for planting for a long time now. It goes back to at least the 1950s.

In any case, I'll be long retired before any maple plantations are in commercial operation....if any ever are.

[upsmapleman]

My wife found a blog the other day by a woman urging people to boycott maple syrup as producers were cutting the tops out of trees to obtain the sap. She painted the picture we were destroying our trees just to make a quick buck. Whether or not the practice is good or bad our industry survival depends on public opinion. At open house the number one question, does it harm the tree. As long as we can show that trees heal and continue to grow and produce they accept that. How long will a tree live if we keep cutting it off. What will it look like in the future if it does survive.

[mountainvan]

I tried this method on one tree, it ran sap but I don't know how much since I did not have a measuring container between the tree and the mainline. i do not think it will damage tree anymore than regular tapping. New shoots should grow from below where it was cut. In Ohio where I grew up pruning of maples is common. At first they look horrible, but within a couple years the tree is back to looking normal. big ag and Wall Street fat cats are already involved in maple, but we little fellows are still plugging along. Hell there's a whole federation north of me pretty much controlling the bulk price of syrup. If I had a some bucks and could plant a maple plantation on flat ground, I'd be there quickly. Easier on the quickly aging body than humping up and down the mountains.Maple has changed significantly in the 21 years I've been at it, and as anything will continue to evolve. We're all just along for the ride. I apologize to anyone my opinion may offend, we Midwesterners do that. As for the blogger.... Some people are ignorant, have too much time on their hands, and unfortunately have access to the Internet. Some may say I'm in that category! Always good to leave with a joke.

[red maples]

no offense taken what so ever to any comments. I just think its a really good debate.

the new shoots or suckers that grow thats pretty much how they grow fence posts. anyway.

I know its debate and I have read the negatives and positives and I understand those positives and negatives. I tend to concentrate on more of the negative because I like to play the devils advocate. In anycase I personally don't care for the new method, as you know from my first post. I know its just research but money is money right??? If someone copied it before there was a patent and sold it??? I also don;t agree with anything that is "factory" farmed nuts, corn, apples, chickens.... whatever. I just don;t wanna see maple go by the way some of the other big crops have gone. I also do under understand that our neighbors to the north pretty much set the prices and the little guy that does the local farmers markets won;t be effected by this because we still have "local" but its Big Ag and .....oh wait getting into political stuff here let me stop at that point... We all know how powerful big Ag and big business is and how influential they can be to "SOME PEOPLE" if you know what I mean... but Dr. Tim is right with any new technology people will question it.

Chicken factory farming started as an accident... what to do with a typo of 500 chicks... now look at the egg and chicken industry its pretty awful.

farms have become 10's of thousands or 100's of thousands of acres of the same crop. environmentally speaking I think if there was just a little diversity in the crops it would be so much better but the all mighty $$$ shines through.

[Sweet Maple Trees]

So could you please tell us of any first hand or
Later gossip stories of people you have heard of that are running out and starting up this style of maple plantation sugaring operation? Names go a long ways over the hear say muck..who has the quantity of trees ready to do several acres never mind a hundred or thousand acres. Won't come cheap at $10-20 a seedling and when sweet cutting become available off sweet mother trees the price jumps even more/but were working on it.
So now that maple season is over I have a chance to comment on this topic of a new style of collecting sap that is being developed and researched by UVM extension maple program.

Let me start by saying I do believe in technology and research in the maple industry. We are learning so much from what these folks are doing and it is very beneficial to the industry. There was an article in the maple news, about ethical practices in the maple industry, I believe from the cornell maple program, including Over tapping trees, tapping small trees, keeping maple production "looking good" to the public to keep the "good reputation" of the maple industry. Yet there is now a way to produce maple syrup by cutting the trees and capping the top and using vacuum to suck the sap.

I am sure I am alone in thinking that this is not the direction most sugarmakers want maple research to go. With the modern techonologies that many of us use, including myself, with vacuum tubing, RO's, Steamaways, etc. we can make maple syrup easier then ever before. Where 1000 or more taps can easily be handled by 1 person with a smaller evaporator with the proper setup. With big food production companies and big Agriculture, both with very deep pockets and world wide investors, could easily step in and purchase a large plot of land and begin to plant maple trees and begin "factory farming" maple syrup with in just a few years time. To me this is really scary for the entire maple industry. That being said with the way companies are developing GMO's this really opens the door for trees developed in a lab to maximize sugar in sap just for the purpose of a plantation/ field planting type of Maple Syrup Production.

This new method really destroys the ethical reputation of making maple syrup and being good stewards of nature that we all enjoy striving for.


no offense taken what so ever to any comments. I just think its a really good debate.

the new shoots or suckers that grow thats pretty much how they grow fence posts. anyway.

I know its debate and I have read the negatives and positives and I understand those positives and negatives. I tend to concentrate on more of the negative because I like to play the devils advocate. In anycase I personally don't care for the new method, as you know from my first post. I know its just research but money is money right??? If someone copied it before there was a patent and sold it??? I also don;t agree with anything that is "factory" farmed nuts, corn, apples, chickens.... whatever. I just don;t wanna see maple go by the way some of the other big crops have gone. I also do under understand that our neighbors to the north pretty much set the prices and the little guy that does the local farmers markets won;t be effected by this because we still have "local" but its Big Ag and .....oh wait getting into political stuff here let me stop at that point... We all know how powerful big Ag and big business is and how influential they can be to "SOME PEOPLE" if you know what I mean... but Dr. Tim is right with any new technology people will question it.

Chicken factory farming started as an accident... what to do with a typo of 500 chicks... now look at the egg and chicken industry its pretty awful.

farms have become 10's of thousands or 100's of thousands of acres of the same crop. environmentally speaking I think if there was just a little diversity in the crops it would be so much better but the all mighty $$$ shines through.

[GeneralStark]

As Dr. Tim said this method is not going to become common any time soon if ever. The economics of it are just not there. Sure the yields are high, but the cost of planting a plantation of maple trees, then managing the associated issues with a monoculture are quite high. Sure a few folks are trying it due to interest, but I don't see it taking off.

I do agree however that public opinion is an issue with this. I do appreciate the work that UVM is doing to try to help people understand that this is research and not maple sugaring, but there are plenty of ignorant people with an internet connection.

In terms of the "ethics" of this practice, the reality is that humans have been coppicing trees for thousands of years. My wife and I traveled in Europe this summer for our honeymoon and while in Croatia we saw grape vines and olive trees that were over 1000 years old. These are intensively managed crops. People have been coppicing for fuel wood for an eternity in many regions of the world. We will always have an impact and there is no way around that. Sure we should be working to minimize our impact, and we do often cross the line, but in my opinion this method is just one more example of human ingenuity and adaptation.

[Dennis H.]

A few years back I got this bright idea to try my hand at making maple syrup. I did a quick google search on the subject and with a little info I became dangerous! Look where I am at now, RO, Vacuum, tubing, etc.
It still amazes me that even with all this added tech it still comes down to boiling sap to make maple syrup. You just can not skip that step.
The one thing that I have come to embrace thru out my maple adventure is how technology can help and improve the quality and quantity of maple syrup one can make. Just look at the RO, how many producers would not be at their current tap count if it were not for the RO.

I personally live in a kind of a maple tree desert. We mostly have oaks around here. There are a few stands of maples but the number of maples are small in those stands. For me to get the 237 maple trees that I currently have and to have them on tubing with vacuum, I have to travel to my dad's cabin. It is a little over a 1/2 drive to there. If I had a stand of maple trees closer I would tap them in a heart beat.

After I read the original article about topping maple saplings to collect sap I thought what a horrible way to get sap, those poor trees. Then I thought it thru and the more I thought about it the more I started to think this could be a good thing for a few producers.
Another thing to think about is that these trees would normally not be there if it were not for you planting them. Yes if that field was left alone long enough it would turn back into forest but how long would that take?

[Michael Greer]

In my opinion, trees may be the only affordable solution to our atmospheric carbon problems, and planting more of them may be our only hope at this point. The only utility I see in this sapling cutting process would come if it were used as part of a forest planting operation. Go ahead and plant a field of saplings on three foot spacings. After five or ten years take out half of them, leaving those with good structure or good sugar content uncut. Eventually they could be thinned out to some normal tree plantation spacing and from then on operate as a normal sugar bush. If the ultimate goal was a forest, I could get behind this idea...but not otherwise.

[maplehick]

Red maples i have to play the other side here. I tap just under 1000 trees as a hobby but we have expanded every year. When do i need to stop before i become a factory maple farmer? ( i dont think i can stop) also i cut tapable maples to thin our bush . It was not taped for over70 years so tree spacing is tight. And we are lucky to have thousands of sapplings is it wrong to cut some out or just pollitically incorrect?they are a renewable natural resource.

[red maples]

well factory farming is more of a method in my opinion. Where its done like a factory. Simply put its about the mistreatment of land and animals. I increase the amount of taps as well. I have tubing. I use the modern tech for making syrup too. How can anyone say its OK to cut the top of a tree off just for sap. we do it for just about everything else why to do we have to do it for maple too. thats all.

there isn't anyone currently using this method to my knowledge. I am just saying its just about ripe for the picking for a company with a very strong finacial backing and a knowledge of the time it will take to start producing. Its more realistic then you might think. is it gonna happen tomorrow... of course not.

[markcasper]

What if a tornado came and leveled the bush today?? What would you do?

[PATheron]

I don't think that cutting off the trees is going to take off in a big way. I think it might be done some but personally don't think it will be a big deal. This is why, its going to take four of the sapplings to equal one regular tap. Its going to take four times the work and four times the money. The other thing is if you drive from Pa to Maine all you see is maple trees. I would think people with deep pockets are just going to do it the easier way. Four bags, four drops, four tees, etc compared to one drop. That being said I think it is an awesome idea. If you have some field not doing anything you could do it. Ive often looked at places where the saplings are thick along the road and thought of tapping all of them with one mainline. They will be cut back anyway to keep the road clear. Only thing is people wouldn't understand. In a regenerating woods most of the saplings will die anyway could pick out the winners early and cater to them, even if you pick out twice what will eventually be there and could be thousands left that you could cut the tops off. Theron

[saphound]

I have never heard of this. How is sap collected once the tree is cut?

[johnallin]

If and when this becomes a viable business plan; I think traditional producers may have a valuable marketing tool.
Something like eggs from free range chickens vs caged... people will pay more for quality.
Now if I was in Quebec and making syrup, I may be singing a different tune.

[mountainvan]

What used to be my nice lawn is no longer that, just rocks over dirt. I think I'll transplant some saplings and see how this works with an acre of trees. May take a couple years, but I'm patient.

[Maplewalnut]

I have to say I am on the fence with this one. I agree perception in a commodity market such as maple syrup is a tough thing to overcome. But if the ecomonics of it do work out and syrup prices drop would people be in favor? I bet yes! Unfortunately people tend to develop opinions based on one criteria...whats in it for me. Sad but probably true in most cases. Take it one step further, I would say maple plantation farming for sap is a more sustaining practice then cutting down a live Christmas tree every year for a 6 week season. Last I knew conifers dont resprout when cut off at the trunk.

Mike

[markcasper]

Roundup ready sugar maples here we come. Seedlings with 30% sugar and sap that never needs defoamer. 30 gallons of sap per tap? Why not 200? What will the future hold?

[Cedar Eater]

I have never heard of this. How is sap collected once the tree is cut?

Read this about the maple syrup revolution. (http://modernfarmer.com/2014/01/maple-syrup-revolution/)

[Cedar Eater]

How can anyone say its OK to cut the top of a tree off just for sap.

How can anyone say it isn't? A tree is just a plant. It's not like they're cutting off someone's head to draw blood. I hear all kinds of emotion in what you're saying, but do you fret over the death of millions of Christmas trees every year? If this method ever becomes economically feasible, those who harvest the "traditional" way will be able to charge a higher price, just like those who stick the "organic" label on their bottle.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I heard a sugar maker by me tried this this year because their bush was hit with straight line winds in july, didnt see it for myself but when the person told me what they saw while snowmobiling I knew what the people were trying to do.

is it right or wrong who knows inbreeding is and that still goes on. just need to make sure your trees have a couple branches that come out :lol:

As for bloggers spouting off and knowing nothing of what they are saying we just have to be better and know what we are talking about when we rebut there stupid comments

[saphound]

Thanks for the link, CE. As a few people asked at the end of the article, my first question would be what happens to the sapling with no crown? It will probably send out new shoots, but enough to support the life of the tree? If so, can you lop it off again the following year, or let it develop for a year or two before cutting the crown off again? I think how often saplings need to be replanted will be a large factor for the private landowner, less so for big agro.

[Cedar Eater]

my first question would be what happens to the sapling with no crown? It will probably send out new shoots, but enough to support the life of the tree?

It either dies or it doesn't, probably depending on how hard you suck on it. Some guys use tapping to kill unwanted small maples when thinning their sugarbush, so I'm sure you can suck a sapling hard enough to kill it. If it sends out new shoots, you would have to selectively cut them so that only one or two survive to use the old stump. If you cut above the first living branch on the stem, that branch will become the new main stem and will take advantage of the already well-established root system.

I've actually been thinking about using this idea to start making a sugarbush on some flat marginal farmland that I own. It's heavy wet clay that barely produces corn when fertilized heavily. It's mostly only good for hay. If I can start seedlings in pots, plant maybe 40 per year in a single row, and keep the voles, bunnies, and deer off them while they grow, I could maybe start harvesting and replanting rows in about 10 years. The problem is that I probably already have more projects on my list than productive years left in my life, but leaving behind a tappable maple plantation wouldn't be a terrible thing.

[DrTimPerkins]

I heard a sugar maker by me tried this this year because their bush was hit with straight line winds in july....

Any attempts by others to do this are seriously hampered by the lack of any commercial devices (the "sap caps") to collect the sap. It is not as simple as a baggie over a cut stem.

However....this is exactly the type of scenario we think this method would be helpful in recovering from.

[DrTimPerkins]

It either dies or it doesn't, probably depending on how hard you suck on it.

How much vacuum you put on it has little effect on survival. Survival depends upon a couple of things....size of the stem (intermediate-sized stems put out shoots better than small stems or large stems) and light exposure (saplings in the open resprout vigorously, those in the shade either die or have minimal sprouting). We've cut some stems 4-5 yrs in a row and as long as they're growing in the open, they keep resprouting.

[saphound]

Interesting, Dr. Tim. On those saplings you've cut now for 4-5 years, have you seen any affect on sugar content in the sap? I ask because it seems like the big yard maples with the huge crowns tend to have higher sugar levels..or so I've read here. What is the average sugar you find from your test saplings? Thanks.

[DrTimPerkins]

Interesting, Dr. Tim. On those saplings you've cut now for 4-5 years, have you seen any affect on sugar content in the sap? I ask because it seems like the big yard maples with the huge crowns tend to have higher sugar levels..or so I've read here. What is the average sugar you find from your test saplings? Thanks.

SSC in saplings is similar to mature trees. It drops off somewhat faster during an extended thaw than in a mature intact tree, but because they are smaller, they freeze more readily (which stimulates the starch to sugar conversion), so that overall the seasonal average tends to be similar for saplings and mature trees. One interesting thing is that because much of the crown is gone, these saplings have only a limited space to store carbohydrates....the remaining stem and branches, and that (at least the stem) is right where we can get at it, as opposed to a mature tree where much of the stored carbohydrate is stored where it cannot be accessed by maple producers (in large branches).

[maple flats]

This new method really destroys the ethical reputation of making maple syrup and being good stewards of nature that we all enjoy striving for.
I disagree, if you are taking a forest , cutting it down to plant for this method it might hurt our reputation, but planting to an open field that was not in maple production before or was in a traditional field crop or was fallow is what good farming is all about. Maximize your production with the lowest cost investment ($ or time).
While I haven't tried this yet, if the "caps" become readily available and the methods more completely studied, I may, on land that is now just mowed to keep the brush from reclaiming it as early succession woodland.

[CharlieVT]

Think of asparagus.
How long does it take to get an asparagus plantation to yield?
What happens to asparagus when it is harvested? Jeez, they cut the tops off!

It is criminal and immoral. I'm starting a "save the asparagus" foundation....

Seriously, it would be one thing to cut the crowns off all the saplings in your sugarbush effectively destroying regeneration of the bush, but entirely another to create a plantation for the purpose harvesting sap from maple saplings. No?

[saphound]

Fields, whether open or brushy, support a wide variety of wildlife from deer and turkeys to songbirds and mice. That said, a field planted with maple sapling "stumps" could still be suitable habitat for many of them.

[mountainvan]

No bags needed, just some farmer ingenuity.

[killingworthmaple]

I think of the idea the same as an vineyard you raise trees for the purpose of a harvest and I don't see anything wrong with it. I believe that it will be easier to take care of the bush and clean the tubing at the end of the season when the trees are all together in a field rather than spread all over a mountain side. You may even be able to make better syrup if the lines are properly cleaned and sanitized at the end of each season. What if the northeast gets hit with a pest that kills the maple trees the same people that are against the new way of tapping will be happy that we have a tried and true 2nd way. I have to agree with an earlier comment most people are looking out for there best interest and afraid the new technology may effect their way of life.

[Jebediah]

Looks to me like Mountainvan has hit on some kind of "happy medium." Can't see the picture too well, but it looks to me like he cut off one thumb-sized limb of maybe a 3-inch-trunk tree. So you plant your "maple orchard," and do this limb-tapping on some alternating fraction of the trees each year as they mature, and then take the conventional route once your orchard is suitably grown-up. So you're re-couping something while on the path to a perfectly-layed-out block of tappable maples. And you've scored "enviropoints" for having planted a whole bunch of trees.

[DaveB]

I'm really neutral on this method and I don't see it any different than a lot of things with maple production or other agricultural changes. I just don't see how anyone who runs miles of tubing into the woods and drills holes into perfectly good trees and then turns on a vacuum can say that doing something sustainable in a field in any more less ethical than what they are doing. What's wrong with moving out of the woods and into fields like lots of other food products?

One of the first questions I often hear is - "doesn't that hurt the tree"? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to tell them that the woods are now left alone and I only tap what's in my field? If people have problems with that, they should stop eating because there's probably a lot of things in agriculture that would disturb them.

[220 maple]

I need to do this for sure, just think a jug of syrup with a picture of a field of cut off trees in the fore ground of the sugar camp, who needs that old bucket hanging on a tree jug anymore? That scene alone will sell syrup like never before!

Mark 220 Maple

[DrTimPerkins]

The reality of maple production is already quite different from the romanticized and frequently advertised scene of wooden buckets on trees with horses pulling a sledge and men in wool jackets emptying buckets into a wooden gathering tank. Apparently maple tubing, vacuum pumps, and RO machines are not quite as picturesque or appealing.

[Jebediah]

Very true. Today the modern producer uses oxen to pull the sledge.

[BreezyHill]

In our bush we have numerous spots that small maples try to establish themselves. Nearly all fail when they get to be about 1.5-2" at 4'. The canopy is taking most of the available light and they die. So why not take these trees and harvest them for a few season and get something out of them?

I see this as a slightly altered version of the person that stops at our Registered Angus Display at the County Fair. "don't touch them they are going to be Hamburg in a few months." the mother says to the 4 year old little girl as she is about to touch a three month old Angus Heifer calf. My wife responded go ahead, these are breeding stock that are used for replacement heifers and bulls. Our commercial cows are at home and they make the hamburg; but they would have never been born and had a happy life on our farm, until they were full grown, if there were not people to feed. Wont that be said...to think that if people stopped eating meat, farmers would not grow calves, and these beautiful animals would not be around either. The women had never thought of it in that way.

So am I to feel bad or remorse for mowing mowed millions of maple seedlings that grew in our lawns and field edges from the seed casts the past year? For that matter what about the billions of grass and legume plants that were harvested to feed our cattle? All we do is cut the tops off?

Everything on earth has a purpose. Ask an elderly person that has farmed all their life; what it is like to see the farm grow houses or just grow up to brush and weeds. Most would rather leave this earth.

A tree that is harvested and produces food for the earth...That's a Productive Life. The person that is born into the city and does not work and survives off public assistance will never know the pride of producing food for themselves and others.

Being at the top of the food chain is not for everyone, nor is producing food for others, unfortunately there the needs to be people, take on the hard decisions associated with these responsibilities and spend endless hours feeding the hungry.

In some place, in a server somewhere, there will be that romantic picture of the past for those to see what things were like in a slower time...and then they can look at the world of electronics and automation and see the great strides forward that Agriculture has taken to keep up with the ever growing number of humans on earth that want to eat every day.

The best story from the fair over the 30 years or so we have been there is the women;"Thats a bull right...How do you milk them?" My son and his and his girl friend smile and respond back. "Madam, the bull is like the husband or father" The women looks to her friend and they both laugh and said God Blessed him well". When they told me the story I asked how old were these women..."Hard to say, they were wearing long black robes and had on these funny looking hats and they were all related" related??? "Yes they all kept saying sister, to each other" LMFAO

We still laugh about that one.

DR Tim. Thank you for Helping me help others to have a diet that is not just rice, soy and corn products thru your research. We have a few galloons of syrup that are going today to make Maple flavored beer.


Ben

[Sugarbush Ridge]

Dr. Tim, In the fall I had bruised a downward hanging limb with a 'boom' 'pigtail' pole on the back of my tractor. When the sap started running I watched as the limb dripped sap from each of the bruised places. I might have gotten a 5 gal bucket of sap a day if I had been able to catch all the drops.

I got to thinking that if I were to cut,, "prune" the limb off I could tie that limb into my gravity tubing. As mountianvan showed in his picture but on a downward hanging limb and could be gravity or vacuum. I and I'm sure as most have been cutting off those low hanging limbs that were swatting us in the face could now use as taps instead of drilling a hole in the trunk. Might eliminate the "baggie" for a piece of tubing.

Now question #1 might be,,,,, what size limb might be needed to equal or surpass one tap in the trunk? #2 could several limbs be "pruned" each year to get more sap than from a tap? #3 How big,,, diameter would the limb need to be? About what size are the trunks where you been cutting the saplin off to do your saplin research? Then "we" could say we are just "pruning" a tree not cutting it off. Start pruning the small trees. I could 'see' tying a limb down to get a downward hanging limb.

Now I know,,, the vision of everyone taping from ladders up in the tops of trees.

Thinking outside the box.

John