2015 sugar house regulations nys

[highlandcattle]

Anyone know the latest requirements for new construction of sap houses?

[Bucket Head]

I don't think the regulators have a clear idea on what the regulations are in this state...

As for the building itself, contact your town's codes officer.

As for the syrup making regulations, I think the "checklist" of requirements for sugarhouses is listed on the Vermont Maple producers website, or at least I thought it was. I was told it was the same or pretty close to what the FDA registration requirements are.

Take a look there first.

Anyone else know where that list can be found?

Steve

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Call NYS Maple Producers 315-877-5795

[sugarman3]

No regulations that i know of,but check with code enforcement on building itself about he codes.

[markct]

Now that the fda is involved its hard to guess whats coming down the pike. If i were building a sugarhouse today it wouldnt have open rafters, likely do t and g pine ceiling, and would have a seperate room for bottling. These seem to be at a minimum what the future will require but its anyones guess realy.

[sjdoyon]

Here's the link:

http://vermontmaple.org/certification-program/

[Bucket Head]

Yes, thats it. The sugarhouse score sheet is what I was thinking of. Thanks.

Steve

[maple flats]

Do not check with the local codes officer. If you do they will just give you a big line of hoops to jump thru. Being an agricultural structure, you do not need a permit.
Back when I built my sugarhouse, I didn't know that and I went for a permit in early June of 2003. It was denied because the property had no primary structure and I had to then get a variance. After jumping thru all the hoops, my permit was finally approved the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. Then I had lost 6 months to work on it. When I got done with each phase I had to call for an inspection (another 1-2 day wait). I did boil in it in 2004, but the sugarhouse was not finished yet, I had to get an extension. Then long story shortened, shortly about the time I was calling for my final inspection I read that an agricultural structure requires no permit. I then talked with the codes officer who had done all the inspections and he said I had NOT needed one, but once I applied for one he had to conduct all the inspections.
To read a horror story about this check out "Talked to the codes officer, this is insane..." by Clarkfield Farms. In his case the state chairman of the Assembly Ag. Committee went to bat for him and the town still would not issue a permit. Just build it, and then if your local government gives you grief, have the state Ag. committee go to bat for you. More help can come thru the NYS maple producers and NY farm Bureau if needed. In Clarkfieldfarms case he has never been issued a permit, and the town says now that they will remove one if he builds it. He does have a barn he could convert but he was told if it ever burns he will not be allowed to rebuild, it is just a nightmare, inspite of the fact that there are other sugarhouses in the town.

[BreezyHill]

In our area of NY you will need a building permit. You just need to go to the different agencies and ask questions of what if a person were to... what would be needed.
The repercussions, fines, penalties, etc are not worth the hassle. I was a Farm Bureau Director and it is not that easy to get them to back all ag issues. During my terms there were issues that needed assistance like right of way that the state refused to back at our counties request. The farmer lost and now there is a precedence that if there is another way to your property; even if it means building a road thru a wet land you have to build the road and your deeded right of way is void.
IMO it is better to make every effort to comply than it is to skirt the regs and to plead ignorance. Last I knew ignorance was not a defense and lawyers are not cheap.

We are still in the upgrading phase. New dust and wash down ceiling is installed, Lights have covers, weather proof elec cover. Ro is going in its own room this season with the building of a cold storage room for bulk syrup and new bottles. Concrete walls were sealed last year. The feed mill's exterminator does the sugar house now...at no extra charge...imagine that.

I figured it was easier and cheaper to do a little at a time to be compliant to what is coming rather than to have an inspection and have a long list of stuff to do by a date for reinspection.

[Clarkfield Farms]

ah, gwasshoppah... if you build it, they will come - at least "The Regulators" will. And they'll be all over you even FASTER, if you're foolish enough to ASK, FIRST. But, better to build and ask forgiveness than to ask to build and be denied. And denied... ad infinitum.

Excuse me, but I'm going to get some popcorn whilst I watch this one unfold. :D

meh, why not be constructive: As far as I have been told, and read that twice, it's only "as far as I've been told," there are not yet any NYS reg's governing sugar houses. You do have to follow local municipality codes, and if - IF - you'll be allowing ANY non-family, and that's any and all non-IMMEDIATE family, into your sugar house for ANY reason, whether to work or as guests including but not limited to sales and Maple Weekend Open House events, then, IF YOU DO, and as I said, AS FAR AS I'VE BEEN TOLD, THEN your structure is no longer classified (or treated as, or taxed as) as an agricultural structure but is now a mercantile facility and THEN you DO have NYS reg's regarding THAT type of structure that come into play, that you must follow... or at least, are told you must follow. >pant, pant< whew, got that all out in one breath. Ready for more?!?! bon appetite! ---> http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?17168-Talked-to-the-Codes-Officer-this-is-INSANE...

Three years, sixteen days, twenty hours and 40 minutes ago... hah, you really REALLY wanna live like that? Every freakin' MINUTE impacted by bureaucratic BEE-ESS???? Loony, I tell ya, LOONY is what it is and what it drives ya to!!! To the point of knowing how long it's been like that?!?! GAH!!! RUN AWAY!!!! SAVE YOURSELF!!!!! :P j/k. But it IS a stinkin' nightmare, every minute.

And no, I'm not sure I got the days/hours/minutes right. Just a minute, let me check --- :D

[BreezyHill]

CFF,
You got to use the terms of today: Brother from another mother, Bro, My mothers, mothers, daughter's, sons, auh let me think, how it goes...sir.

Isn't Maple week a term used to describe the time of year that you allow people to visit your operation.

In my neck of the woods there are so many outsiders coming in and wanting to turn our rural town into suburbia that it is totally nuts. 85 decibels at the property line for man made noise regulation....thank God they put in a Ag exception. Otherwise my tractor that will run a flame out the stack when mowing at night would be illegal. I wear ear plugs and ear muffs.

I am sorry you are going thru the BS you are but amagine the BS if you had built the sugar house first. I had a neighbor do just that and he was turned in. Shortly after he dided I saw the building was pulled down.

Remember you don't own the land you just rent it from the govt and pay rent...better known as taxes.

Ask Cuomo why he didn't rollout part two to the Safe Act...

Hang tough brother!

Ben

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Remember you don't own the land you just rent it from the govt and pay rent...better known as taxes.



You could not have said this better. It's true. Where do our rights begin as grantees of the deed, and where do theirs end?

[maple flats]

The government only has the powers we (the people) grant them. It amazes me how much we (collectively) have given them. Those who don't want to get involved and those who do not vote nor express their desires are the ones who, by default grant these powers. Thomas Jefferson, who penned the constitution and rather than put what became the Bill Of Rights in the main text, purposely made them an addendum to the Constitution. He wanted them to spell out what Congress can not do.
Since then the elected leaders have ravaged the original document to the point that modern day citizens have no idea what they can and can not do. Those who want to participate in the oldest agricultural business this great nation had don't dare build a structure to process the maple sap into syrup and more.
We now let the local elected (and sometimes appointed) official bully us and prohibit us from building a sugar house. In Tim's (Clarkfield Farm) now famous words, "this is INSANE".

[Jswanson]

I thought this might be useful.

2010 Building Code.

SECTION 101 TITLE, SCOPE AND PURPOSE

101.1 Title. These provisions shall be known as the Building Code of New York State and shall be cited as such and will be referred to herein as "this code."

101.2 Scope. The provisions of this code shall apply to the construction, alteration, movement, enlargement, replacement, repair, equipment, use and occupancy, location, maintenance, removal and demolition of every building or structure or any appurtenances connected or attached to such buildings or structures.

Exceptions:
1. Detached one-and two-family dwellings and multiple single-family dwellings (townhouses) not more than three stories in height above grade with separate means of egress and their accessory structures shall comply with the Residential Code of New York State.
2. Agricultural buildings, including barns, sheds, poultry houses and other buildings and equipment on the premises used directly and solely for agricultural purposes.
[/B]3. Construction trailers used as a temporary office for the purpose of monitoring construction at a construction site.
4. Structures such as radio and television transmission, communication and wind generation towers not attached to buildings.

AGRICULTURAL, BUILDING. A structure designed and constructed to house farm implements, hay, grain, poultry, livestock or other horticultural products, excluding any structure designed, constructed or used, in whole or in part, for human habitation, as a place of employment where agricultural products are processed, treated or packaged, or as a place used by the public.

PART 276 FOOD PROCESSING ESTABLISHMENTS
New York State Department of Agriculture and Markets Page 5 of 6
file:///C:/Users/Admin/Desktop/Maple%20Syrup/Exemption%20from%20lic._files/Exemp... 3/14/2015
Subject to Regulation Under Article 20-C of the Agriculture and Markets Law Section
276.1 Good manufacturing practices.

All food processing establishments subject to regulation under article 20-C of the Agriculture and Markets Law shall be subject to the current good manufacturing practices of Part 261 of this Title unless exempted by said article 20-C or by this Part.

Section 276.4 Exemption.

a. Maple syrup and honey. Processors of maple syrup or honey who do not purchase maple syrup or honey from others for repackaging, and who do not combine maple syrup or honey with any other substance, shall be exempt from the licensing requirements of this Subchapter, provided that the following conditions are met:
1. Such establishments are maintained in a sanitary condition and manner, and to this end the following requirements shall be complied with:
i. Every practicable precaution shall be taken to exclude birds, insects (except those involved in the production of the product), rodents and other vermin and animals from the premises of the operation.
ii. The use of insecticides, rodenticides and other pest control items in such establishments shall be permitted only under such precautions and restrictions as will prevent the contamination of the product.
iii. Rooms, compartments, places, equipment and utensils used for preparing, storing or otherwise handling the product, and all other parts of the operating premises, shall be kept in a clean and sanitary condition.
iv. There shall be no handling or storing of materials which may create insanitary conditions in any place or places where the product is prepared, stored or otherwise handled.
v. All equipment and utensils used in processing or handling the product shall be maintained in good repair to assure sanitary conditions in the operation.
vi. All finished product containers must be clean, sanitary and properly labeled in compliance with the requirements of Parts 175, 176 and 259 of this Title.
b. Exemptions from licensing requirements of article 20-C of the Agriculture and Markets Law under this section are conditioned on continued compliance with the requirements of this section.
c. The granting of an exemption pursuant to this section will not except an operation from any inspections the commissioner may deem necessary to assure compliance with this section.

[boneheadben]

As far maple weekend goes as already stated it is illegal, doesn't matter if the state promotes it. If u are not commercial zoned that's our state for ya, 70% or more of participating sugar houses are probably illegal, state says to public go and visit these illegal places and if someone turns you in state says screw ya, this is why I don't understand how the nys maple association can even let this continue without resolving the issue first.

[Clarkfield Farms]

"The man with experience will never be at the mercy of a man with a theory" is the way the old saying used to go... But the Golden Rule was somehow similarly abominated along the way, too: "He who has the gold, makes the rules." We're being governed by the unelected, who are appointed by the unelectable, who for whatever reasons continue to be elected...

...by the governed.

[Clarkfield Farms]

I'm not at present recalling the author but a few decades ago I read: "The more rules governing the body, the more corrupt the body becomes." You can't obey one "rule" without violating at least one other.

With a system like ours that is so self-serving that it cannot justify its existence beyond the incessant writing of new laws, what hope have we that anything good can come of it?

[Moser's Maple]

As far maple weekend goes as already stated it is illegal, doesn't matter if the state promotes it. If u are not commercial zoned that's our state for ya, 70% or more of participating sugar houses are probably illegal, state says to public go and visit these illegal places and if someone turns you in state says screw ya, this is why I don't understand how the nys maple association can even let this continue without resolving the issue first.
i have to respectfully disagree with this. If this is the case then dairy farms would not be able to give tours, horse stables couldn't give lessons. This is why for maple weekend you purchase the proper general liability insurance, product liability insurance, if want to take an extra step you have the NYS Ag and Markets come inspect your place for sanitation, oh and make sure if you are selling products other than maple you contact the health department to come and inspect for your temporary food service permits you can acquire for individual events.
as far as structure goes this seems very dependent as far as where you are in the state. I know some areas give harder times of what is ag is considered when it comes to sugarhouses. I do know if you plan on trying to build a sugarhouse house in village limits, or in a business district then ag zoning probably will not apply, instead you'll have to abide by the rules in that particular zone. I also know in some village districts to build new ag is not allowed, but to remodel existing ag is allowable. As for construction wise for ag, it's adviseable to build to standard codes, or as close as possible. although your local building inspector may not inspect your building, you can bet your insurance company will know what is acceptable, and unacceptable. If you plan on having public coming, again this is where common sense comes into play to have fire suppression, safe exits, cleared walk ways..etc....
it is also a good idea to have your local fire department, or fire inspector come up and give suggestions and a possible occupancy number. These things are not needed, but it's a good idea to have especially if the public is involved.
as for food say for maple weekend. when you contact the health department they will come up and inspect....for us it was the opening saturday of maple weekend. we had on the permit to do hot dogs. the lady came up inspected our grill, our hand sanitation by the porta potty, and our source of water which consisted of thermos' of water from a municiple water supply, ro permeate, and cases of bottled water, which were all excepted forms of water. the inspected asked how we heat the water and she was shown the cook stove in the camp area which was an accepted way to heat water. she asked where the grey water went to, and let her see the 2 5 gallon pails under the sink. this was also acceptable, as long as we transport the grey water back to one of our homes to dump down a proper septic system. What got my attention was my mother was making some chili while she was there for use to have on the go for lunch. The health inspector ask if we were selling chili and I explained no, because it was being made here and this is not our inspected kitchen. She in turn informed me that this would an allowable kitchen for these events because she has inspected the kitchen and would be considered a "home use" kitchen for the event. she went on to tell me that we could make anything we would like as long as it is done in that kitchen and the days of the events. if we bring in outside food to sell, then at that point it has to come from our 20C kitchen because it is being transported ( go figure).So as far as I'm concern we are perfectly "legal" for maple weekends even though a "building permit" was never issued for our structures. We are also ground level, with 42 in out swinging doors which makes us handicap accessible, and commerical dwelling compliant for exiting. Like I said common sense building goes a long ways.

[boneheadben]

Moser, I wish i I could say I agree, but I know I am right because it happened To me, this year, a neighbor turned me in to the town for having public Into an Ag building and retailing out of it. Inspector was going to to give citation but I talked him out of it. Ag and markets told me that it is illegal to have public in and retail out of an Ag building. They have tried three years to get a bill signed by the gov but has not yet. If don't believe me call them yourself or Helen thomas

[Clarkfield Farms]

Disagreeing is fine, Jake, but please check with the State. Not only did the Town tell me this, but it also came from the people I've been in regular contact with from the NYS Ag Protection Unit. Even back in 2012, Bob Somers was clear that, "If so, the sales facility will have to be built to standards established under the Building Code of New York State because the public has access to the building. Under the BCNYS, the structure would no longer be considered an agricultural building. Retail farm sales from a building is considered a mercantile facility. If you sell from your property, you will also have to go through the Town’s streamlined site plan review process...", virtually echoing what the Town told me.