Input on best wood fired evaporator for the $$ / leader vs cdl vs lapierre

[RUNOFBANK]

We are looking to replace our Leader patriot pans and traditional wood arch for a newer, cleaner more efficient rig. Looking at Leader Inferno or Vortex with Max flue, CDL Intensofire and Lapierre Hurricane x-treme fire possibly force 5. Any input in regards to these would be great. Has or does any one run one or more of these. Pros and cons please.

[GeneralStark]

They are all great rigs with impressive boil rates and wood consumption levels. I looked at the vortex, the force 5 and the intens o fire and you can see by my signature what I went with. After two seasons boiling with this rig I am quite impressed with it. The only issue has been with the draft controls which CDL knew might be a problem due to a change in vendor for parts. Last season they were here within hours to fix a broken control. Support was really the main factor for me as during the season I want to be making syrup and not fixing equipment. This is certainly something to consider in making your decision as all these rigs are more complex than a traditional arch. I did already have a relationship with CDL, though I have purchased equipment from all the companies, and I have been most impressed with their customer support. I really like the Force 5, but LaPierre would never call me back.

Last season I used about 7 cords to make 170 gallons boiling raw sap. This year I used just under 5 cords to make over 300 gallons boiling 8-10% concentrate, though I did boil raw sap for our open house weekend as I didn't have enough sap to concentrate.

[para2]

My vote is with the vortex. Running a 3x10 3ft front pan and a 7 foot combo fluent pan.was told by brad at leader that it would do 180 @start up and 200 once up to temp. Best to date 206 gallons per hour. Bruce came down fired with us which was a great help in the learning.curve.

[unc23win]

I think all of the companies are in the same ball park with effiency although I will admit it is a shame not all of them publish the numbers. In my opinion one of the biggest downfalls of any maple company is the lack of information readily available either on the web or in a brochure. If you are looking to buy new a trip to the open houses in Vermont is a good idea. Good service is always a plus both from the parent company and the dealer.

[ennismaple]

I believe that when they've done boil-offs in the past using same sized evaporators the Lapierre Force 5 won for most efficient and the CDL unit was the faster boil rate? I could be wrong - I'm sleep deprived and going off memory!

We love our Force 5! We've boiled on it for 6 seasons now and ours was the first installed in Ontario. Support has been great (we have an amazing local dealer) and we've had very few issues. Boiling around 10% concentrate this year we probably averaged 120 gallons of syrup made per chord of wood! We get about 200 gallons of concentrate through it per hour. I'd buy another one.

[LittleEnnis]

They did do a boil-off. Here's the link: http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?13939-Boil-Off-Maple-Rama

[sjdoyon]

We have the Inferno. I find its like comparing a Ford, Dodge, and Chevy. We are looking to replace ours in a few years and we're looking at evaporator capabilities. More importantly, we are looking at price. We're looking at the Force 5 as our next evaporator.

[RUNOFBANK]

Can you tell me some good and bad about your inferno and why you wouldn't go with another one. We were looking at them first mostly because of price. Now are thinking one of the more efficient arches may be better mostly because of the evap. rates. We were told that a 2.5x10 vortex with max pans and NO steam away will boil 165 gal/hr. I am having a hard job believing that. However have been told that the force 5 and intensofire of same size will be closer to 115 gal/hr. Can 1.5" more flue depth really make up that difference. I don't want to find out the hard way.

[Woodland Acres]

When i bought my 3x10 Intens-O-Fire5 years ago it came with all the brick, refractory cement,arch board,smoke stack,chimney cap as a package deal a lot cheaper then any other company. I was impressed with the quality of service from CDL. This year I bought the front pan reverser for it and wished that I had purchased it when I first got it as I only boil raw sap.

[Bruce L]

Not only the extra flue depth,but also the number of flues. As mentioned earlier, go to the open houses and watch the rigs boil, I did that for two years straight, took another sugarmaker with me the second year, stood back and said nothing to him.He was also most impressed with the vortex with the max flues.I am easily topping 250 gal/hr, no hoods or preheater, and only raw cold sap. Yes the vortex may use more wood, but I am done boiling quickly so I can get out in the bush checking for leaks etc.Check out the short video my son did last year of our vortex boiling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93mg7ubYPs0

[Potters3]

I have a 30" x12', no steamaway yet. hoods on both pans, 8' max raised flue pan and a 4' Revolution syrup pan. This year I am burning almost all white birch pole wood average thru put has been 190 to 200 gallons per hour of 8 to 10 % r/o'ed sap. I have had this set up for 4 years and have had no problems and would buy another one if needed.

[sapmaple]

This was my second year with 4x12 vortex had a traditional 4x12 w/blower and steam-away boiled 300 gallons an hr. With the Vortex 7 foot Max flue and enhanced steam-away I boil 400 gals an hr. 12% concentrate allows me to make 250 gals per cord of wood.
My only complaint is the bricks can't stand the heat and crack and start to lean in on the fire box so have to mess with them each time I switch the front pan
Leader said they were looking into some new age metal to replace the bricks but haven't heard anything yet I'll inquire at the open house!
If not I'll re-brick in a different way, been thinking about how to do it

[peckfarm]

I have had a chance to see many more other rigs boiling this year than in the past. I have yet to see another evaporator boil as hard and fast in the rear pan. The thing with the vortex is it is humming, this is no sit back and chill evaporator. If you are in it to boil hot and fast then it is good. The high pressure fan is loud and the cool down time is longer than other arches. Run them deep, fire them often with small split wood and really watch the scale build up if you are boiling concentrate. These are the "less than good" aspects in all honesty. That being said, the vortex is like a big block with two 4 barrel carbs, moving fire fast to boil hot. Every full brick in the fire chamber is bright orange glowing from the heat. It is impressive I like it very much.

[brookledge]

One thing to remember with anything when it comes to efficiency, what sacrifices do you want to make. You can drive your hybrid car so slow that you get great mileage but it takes you a long time to get there. Wel the same goes for an evaporator. Some of them boast only adding wood every 30 min (or what ever) and get great efficiency but your boiling time is longer than if you were pushing it hard.
So in my mind it all comes down to your own philosphy
Keith

[Ryan Mahar]

Sorry to get into the conversation late here..........first I guess how many taps do you have?/ and are you RO'ing??? We have been boiling on a 2x6 revolution from leader, we RO 8-10% and made 400+ gallons this year off 1200 taps.....I am farily confident we can put 2000 taps through it and keep boiling times to less than 10 hours................We are expanding our taps to be well over 2000 next year and so the 2x6 is for sale, but just so you have a comparison, that is what this rig can handle and produce.....

[RUNOFBANK]

This weekend my two older boy's (4&6) and I attended the open houses for CDL, Lapierre, D&G and Leader. Now I have a bigger issue in making a decision than before. Initially I was leaning towards an inferno but after seeing all the air tights up close and personal, I'm not so sure. They all seem to have their benefits. If I could only take them home on demo like a new piece of excavation equipment.

-Lapierre in my opinion had the highest quality pans with diamond top flues and either 7 or 9 inch available. However the force five is priced through the roof and wood consumption is of no concern to me and the xtreme does not have any air injected into the box through the door but does boast some nice evaporation rates. The xtreme has a single large blower that is mounted within the arch. It was not running but by the looks of thing will make some noise especially in a tight building.

- CDL intensofire overall was very impressive with a user friendly fire door not quite as fine tuned as Lapierre but darn close. I inquired about the stainless steel being used and got mixed answers from the staff. So still not sure if they are 304 and what gauge. The flues are not diamond shaped which I have become accustomed to but... The blower was set up to be mounted outside the sap house or in another room to reduce noise pollution. There is air is introduced in three zones of the fire box and all three are adjustable. They claim that it can be run as gasifier or forced draft where Lapierre claims they are the only manufacturers with a true gasifier.

- Leader is still making a very nice set of pans I particularly liked the max combo. The revolution pan is very nice and makes lots of sense. There doors being used on the air tight fronts seem very cumbersome and not something I would want to open every 5-10 minutes to fire. I think a half day in the shop and I could customize the handle to be a bit more user friendly. The vortex looks nice but when you start crawling around it they pale in comparison to CDL and Lapierre particularly for the same cost possibly a little more. Dayton blowers (I think) and generic rheostats with no therm. for stack temp incorporated was not exactly state of the art. But sometimes simple stupid does win the race. In regards to evaporation rates. With the max flue it will take the lead early and win the race for sure. I did speak with a producer who claims their syrup on average is darker boiling on the max. But thats just one in many. If anyone else running a max has input here, I'd love to hear it.

- The staff member at D&G who was running the wood evaporator was not very kid tolerant so we didn't spend much time there. Guess I won't be buying one of them.

In summary a great weekend in VT with lots of great equipment, producers and sales people alike. It would be much easier to compare all the rigs if pricing was readily available for everything. Rather than building one, pricing and comparing. Lapierre did offer to send me a price sheet for all sizes and options though I have not seen it yet.I give the xtreme my vote, however my son Austin fell in love with the intensofire, my son Tristan the vortex and my wife just wishes I would stop researching and just buy something.. anything. I haven't told her yet that we took a detour and looked at some maple real estate this weekend too. Why tap out at 2000 where I am when the sky is the limit in northern VT.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I would go cdl or lap. leader is over rated, Ill repeat myself about 2010 boil off leader had there max pans boiled not much more than Lap maybe 30 gallons. so for the money i dont feel it. Lap force five would be at the top of my list then CDL I would have a hard time choosing.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I think the Intens-o-fire is the best arch on the market. They will boil extremely fast or slow them down and use them as a gasification.

[n8hutch]

I Vote CDL also. I went to the big 3 in Swanton & St. Albans Saturday. Talked to a few guys at leader & they were helpful. Went to lapierre and nobody even spoke to me. They were giving out Muggs however. Went to CDL last and I thought the guys there were the most Informed & the most helpful, also all quotes were typed and printed very clearly and totaled up on company paper. The quotes at leader were hand written and confusing at best. Not to mention they were significantly cheaper at CDL and it would be pretty hard to argue that the quality is inferior. While I am partial to Made in America its pretty hard to pay 10 to 20% more for something that will do the same thing. Maybe A little better, maybe not.

[briansickler]

Hey Justin,

I agree with your son, Austin. I ordered our new CDL Intensofire Saturday at my local dealer's open house. It's a 2.5 x 10. He stated max evap rate on forced draft mode is 125 gph. Early order 10% off. $19,854 net price. I should receive it sometime in September.

I like the flexibility with the two modes of operation.

Time to get the tap count up......

Brian Sickler

[Stone]

I have a 3x12 Leader Vortex with max flue pan, revolution front pan, and enhanced steam away. I've had this rig for 5 seasons. I have a flow meter on my incoming sap and when we're fully up to temperature (about 1hr) we stay between 5-6gpm (300-360gph). Boiling 8% concentrate, we use a cord of wood to produce roughly 170gal syrup; I think it was more like 50:1 when we were boiling raw sap (but I don't measure wood usage very closely). We use a timer to fire every 8min which works well for us. My only complaints are 1) the firebrick and/or refractory cement can't take the heat so it cracks (Leader is working on this) and 2) I would like to have a push plate in the front to push the front pan against the flue pan.

I agree that getting real comparison pricing can be difficult. A dealer can be a great help there; I've had very good experience with Goodrich's in Cabot, VT.

[RUNOFBANK]

Thanks everyone for all the great input.
Here is a photo of the first boil on our new rig.
It certainly makes steam. Lots of it.
13611
13617

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Don't think you went wrong with that decision, it is an amazing machine.