Maple orchards?

[Jebediah]

This year for the first time I had access to some yard trees (not in the woods). They out-performed the woods trees by a wide margin. This got me to wondering: why aren't there (to my knowledge) "maple orchards?" Trees planted with perfect spacing, perfectly symmetrical planting for efficient tube setup, no competition, etc. It would be a very long-term (multi-generation?) investment, I guess. Do such engineered maple plantings exist?

[RC Maple]

While I have seen a picture or two of such plantings they are very rare and have a "unicorn" status. I thought it sounded like a good idea though and planted 20 sugar maples myself last spring. Layed the tape measure out and spaced them all evenly then proceeded to fight off the deer and the jap beetles and I saw the other day it looks like they will all be leafing out shortly and I am looking forward to seeing how they fare this year.

[Sugarmaker]

Jeb,
Yes they exist and we tap them! 150 of the best maples in two counties. All spaced out nicely, big crowns. All hard maples (maybe a couple soft) Very good amount of sap, good sugar content. Are they in the backyard? No! Do we have to go to them? Yes. I learned this lesson a long time ago.
We made .3 gallons of syrup per tap on gravity tubing this season.
Regards,
Chris

[Bucket Head]

Yes, they are out there.

But they are extremely rare! There's one south of Cooperstown, NY. The gentleman tapping that one was/is(?) a user here but I forget his name. It was two or three years ago when it was mentioned.

I salivate every time I drive by it. Not to mention I usually drive off the road a bit while looking at the lines of trees going up the hill.

Then when I'm trying to manuever the car back on the road and away from the ditches I curse the car, the road and the gentleman tapping them.

Steve

[Jebediah]

Very interesting--thanks!

[SDdave]

So if one were to do such a planting, how long before tapping? Assuming starting with a 2" bare root maple, most likely a soft maple such as Autumn Blaze or Silvers.

SDdave

[MichtonTree]

I was thinking same thing. We bought our property a couple of years ago with park like setting and 8 sugar maples around 75 years old. (There a few more in the back of the property I will tap next year). My first year sugaring 12 taps produced sap at 3.37% and 4.5 gallons of sap. I could not believe the sugar level at first, reading what sugar levels usually are. But realized what you said spacing and no competition makes all the difference. I will be planting ten more this year for future generations.

[Run Forest Run!]

So if one were to do such a planting, how long before tapping? Assuming starting with a 2" bare root maple, most likely a soft maple such as Autumn Blaze or Silvers.

I planted bare root Silver maple and Freeman maple whips and am currently tapping them. If you give yourself about 15 years, you should be tapping. :) Those trees give me great sugar content and I couldn't be happier with them.

[Michael Greer]

As a culture, we Americans have no patience, no long range vision, and no real habit of passing things on to the next generation. Who can imagine planting something that won't produce for 15 or 20 years?? The trees that I tap here in the Village of Potsdam were planted along all the streets around 1900. Clever folks would have planted more in 1950, and again when the year 2000 rolled around, but we just don't do things that way here.
I benefit from the work and planning of others long passed. I appreciate those street side trees because of the shade, the autumn beauty, and the 4% sap they yield. I plant trees that I'll never see tapped as a gesture toward those I'll never meet.
I'm pretty convinced that planting trees is the only real solution to the atmospheric carbon problems we face, and I sure wish we'd planted more.

[MichtonTree]

This year for the first time I had access to some yard trees (not in the woods). They out-performed the woods trees by a wide margin. This got me to wondering: why aren't there (to my knowledge) "maple orchards?" Trees planted with perfect spacing, perfectly symmetrical planting for efficient tube setup, no competition, etc. It would be a very long-term (multi-generation?) investment, I guess. Do such engineered maple plantings exist?

Amen......

[Bucket Head]

I agree Mike. I have thought about planting maples for the future, knowing it wont be "my future". Theres just no way of ensuring they be there 50 years from now and beyond.

The problem, or reality is they will be cut down for development reasons. Or at least heavily thinned, negating your thoughts and effort.

Your lucky someone did'nt decide somewhere along the way that the trees your tapping, "need to go". All to often we watch 100, 150, sometimes 200 years of maple tree growth end with 15 minutes of a chainsaw running.

If you planted an orchard, how would you keep the land for "syrup production only" forever?

[Spanielslovesappin]

The way i see it the woods i am tapping could have been destroyed may times over, but they were not so i am fortunate to tap them. I have been cultivating a maple plantation for ten years now out of Cornell Sweet Trees, its a bit of a battle but a long list of people made choices and did the work over the past 150 years that i am benefiting from so it seems only fair that i do the same for future generations. If they end up getting sawn for boiling alley or fire wood, oh well... i still did the right thing and perhaps there was an unforeseen dire shortage of bowling facilities or an ice age... i wont be here to see it!

[Bucket Head]

Lol! There will only be bowling video games in the future- no hardwood required! There will be only one alley in the whole country- for recording the audio for the video game!

I guess we should all go out and plant maple orchards. And then hope 1 to 2 percent of them survive.

Realistically, for them to survive they would have to be planted a long ways away from currently developed areas (towns, cities, villiages) and on undevelopable (steep hills,slopes, ravines, other?) areas to help keep the chainsaws away. And even that might not save a large number of them.

[Michael Greer]

In answer to the original question "are there Maple orchards?"... The European explorers took lots of maple seeds and seedlings home with them, and planted "maple orchards" when they saw what the native Americans were doing with them. I read somewhere that some remnants of those plantings remain, though I couldn't tell you where.
The natural range of the Sugar Maple is small when you look on a global scale. The thing we do here is pretty special, and not really in danger of disappearing, even through development. There are more trees in the north-eastern region of the U.S. than any time in the last two hundred years, and the vast majority is privately owned. Cutting them all down could only happen one parcel at a time.

[Jebediah]

Although only slightly related to topic, I have wondered what fraction if existing maple trees are tapped. Obviously it is an incredibly small fraction.

[CampHamp]

There will be clear cutting and planting of maple orchards, I'm sure. There is short-term pay-back with new plantings and high vacuum, it seems.

Living amongst the chaos of a diverse natural environment is for me.

I know there's money and efficiencies in monocultures, but I hope people continue to find value in a wild, vigorous forest.

[Big_Eddy]

I have many maples in my yard that I planted <20 years ago that are tappable size. Many of those are larger today than woods trees that I have been tapping all along. Good sun and less competition will do that. 20 years is not that long, when you think that most people will work ~30-40 years before retirement (plus another 10+ after on various "hobbies" and side businesses)

Christmas tree farms are a 10-15 year investment for a 1 time payoff of $10-20/ tree . Maple plantations are a 20 year investment for an annual payoff of $10-20 a tree. I know which I consider to be a better "investment".

I manage my woodlot as a mixed bush, but if I had had several acres of marginal farmland available, it would have been planted with sugar maples many moons ago.

[Helicopter Seeds]

I need to buy more land, preferably with maples already large and wonderful..... Brother in law is moving, I have to un-tap his trees on March 1st, there goes four trees right mid season. I can't commit a lot of cash when I can't control the farm so to speak. I was thinking of buying trees from a nursery that are already 2 or three inches thick, and line my property, so I would have a mini-bush in 10 to 15 years in case I don't find anything else.

[Sunny Hill Farm]

There is a large maple orchard,100 plus trees, planted on a west slope just east of the Wellsville Airport in Allegany County, NY. I believe they were planted in the 50's & 60's. Most are tapable size now. The orchard has been tapped and may be in use today.
I have planted 50 +- maples for use by the grandkids. Here in WNY on heavy clay soil it will take 40+ years for a hard maple to reach tapping size. Soft maples tend to grow much faster. Soils, site aspect and weather play large roles in the growth of newly planted trees.
Here's to a good season for all.

[mudr]

I sent out my order and check for 100 of the sweet sap silvers. They are the high sugar strain that is propagated clonally up at St lawrence nurseries in postdam ny. Listed as tapable in 8-10 yr, I've heard you can potentially tap at 6 given their growth rate. Dropped ~$1700, but I can make about $4000 in the first year of tapping and every year after. Planting on a grid in a damp former cow pasture a 30 second walk from the house. Wife and I are 29, kids are 4 and 1. Should see a number of good years with these trees.

[blissville maples]

as a contractor i drive thru vt a lot, you wanna see maple orchards?? you should past thourh west Windsor vt dueling hill rd-unbelievable or bridgewater perfectly spaced natural bushes, not planted natural growing with non maples cut out in last 50 years or so ago is picturesque. im thinking about moving!!

[killingworthmaple]

I have given this much thought and was ready to pull the trigger on purchasing hundreds of trees I actually placed the order and cancelled it. "our family has decided to go a different way".

This was the plan to buy sweet silver maple trees from NY with 4+ sweet sap we were gonna plant them last spring. They can be tapped in 7-10 years however we were going to cut a limb per year (prune them) and do stem tapping till they grow big enough to tap. Doing it this way one could plant the trees and start reaping some benefit in 5 years or so and every year it should get better and better. Before you know it 20 years will have passed and we would have a orchard. At least this was the plan.

Nathan

[WestfordSugarworks]

My mom owns a house on 10 or so acres of old pasture. We mow it every year and it's in good shape, not sure about the soils but I bet maples would take to it well. One thing I think of is the potential for disease/pests. It sure would be tough to see many hours of labor and a lot of money rot away/ get eaten away by pests. With climate change introducing and spreading maladies in seemingly unpredictable ways, I would be hesitant. Especially since you are planting a monocrop. Even if some parts of our sugarwoods I worry about the 95% plus maple density. It's good to have a little diversity in case a disease or pest comes. But with all this being said, fear is no good reason not to do something. And with these super sweets being tappable in less than 10 years, it seems like a great possible investment.

[WESTMAPLES]

hey i live in western mass, anyone have names or numbers of where they bought the super sweet slivers??? im willing to travel im in the process of being gifted 41 1/2 acres and im planning on thinning and planting more maples im 29 so it would be nice to tap them sooner then later ive already got 400 plus taps there now i do need to thin it abit but that will wait till the paperwork is done thanks for any info in advance

[pennslytucky]

i think the better way to do it is to find a piece of woods already full of maple, thin it hard over a few years to a sugarbush and fill in any gaps with new trees that the kids can tap in 25 years. i have the neighbors property and its nearly 100% reds on a nice hill. 30 years ago it was too thick to walk through im sure, but its thinned itself out to 12-14" multi-bole 50" tall trees spaced 20 feet apart. literally, a few thousand weak taps on 15 acres. lots of 1%-1.5% sap. no big deal with a nice RO, but sometime over the next decade i have made it my mission to own the acreage and start at the top corner, working my way down with the crawler, chainsaw, and chipper until i have a serious sugarbush a lot like what you guys are talking about. reds arent sugars, but they ARE maple.... im 35....hopefully i have enough time to see it through

[mudr]

hey i live in western mass, anyone have names or numbers of where they bought the super sweet slivers??? im willing to travel im in the process of being gifted 41 1/2 acres and im planning on thinning and planting more maples im 29 so it would be nice to tap them sooner then later ive already got 400 plus taps there now i do need to thin it abit but that will wait till the paperwork is done thanks for any info in advance

West maple- look up st lawrence nursery online. They are from Potsdam ny. The website currently says they are out of sweet saps but don't let that scare you. I've been talking to conner, the new owner both in person (verona conferenc) and via email. They still have some, actually, 100 less since my order went in. :)

I did the math, I'm dropping about $1800 now for those trees+shipping, but can I make $4500 in retail quarts in yr 6 or 7, and every year after.

I'm doing an 18×20 ft grid. My goal was 20x20, but 18 is what it worked out as. Both conner and a cornell researcher felt that 20x20 is an acceptable spacing. You can do wider if you wish.

[blissville maples]

1800 on saplings....wow youd better hope theres not a lot of rabbits or gophers in the area could be a very bad spring after a winter when they chew all the bark off. deffinantly get something to wrap the stem up, did you figure in your cost of tubing and harvesting, etc. not so sure about this idea as a big investment however the thought is appealing, i tried apple trees 6 years ago, gophers ate all roots disease got the vegetation and they all died. mother nature is the final denominator for anything, need to think of drought which cold hamper sapplings, rodents, and all else. this is the first ive heard of these silvers

[mudr]

No real rabbit problems where these are going in. Deer can be an issue but we've learned how to keep them away based on past experience. We use garlic deterrents. Did wonders in our mini fruit orchard, garden, and mothers shrubbery. Also regarding deer, these trees start at about 3-4 ft. I'd suspect the tops would get above deer munching height in 2 growing seasons. Is there room for error? Sure. But it's agriculture. You roll the dice every time you plant wheat, grapes, or apples, this isn't much different.

[Spanielslovesappin]

I just received Forest Keelings current availability list. They have 3000 Super Sweet sugar maples available. They come potted with a huge root ball, they call them RPM. I planted 100 of them in October, they have doubled in size already and we have only lost 2. These are the Cornell sweet trees. $14.75 each. We planted in Blue tubes, with a piece of Re-bar to support the tube, also bucks don't like to rub on re-bar so it will stay next to the tree until they are large enough to not get destroyed. We did add Chicken wire to the top of the blue tubes as the deer were mowing off the trees as they emerged from the tubes. Some are already 6 feet tall and still growing.

Forrest Keeling Nursery
800-356-2401