info on setting up small vacuum system

[lords sugaring]

Hello everyone,
I've been doing research on the site and not really finding exactly what I'm looking for. I'm wanting to set up a small vacuum system with about 200 taps for next year. I don't want a guzzler from the reviews I've seen on them. I read that people like to get about 1.25 cfm per 100 taps so would 5 cfm be ok or the more the better ? I see other people having mid to high 20's but they also have more taps so I'm not to sure what to buy. Can I get away with a 5/16 line for a main or do I have to go with an inch. Also what size holding tank would be good to run into. As far as expansion goes not looking to go much more than that for a few years then hopefully I can get some more land.

[unc23win]

You want to use mainline maybe you don't need 1" with 200 taps 3/4 would most likely do the job. The goal is to get as much vacuum as possible to the tap hole the farthest away from your vacuum source this is achieved by using adequately sized mainline. Then from the mainline you use saddles as entrance fitting where your 5/16" from the trees enter the mainline. The shorter the 5/16" and the fewer taps per 5/16" line the better vacuum you will have to the taps.

For 200 taps a 5cfm pump is good. Are you planning on getting a releaser/extractor or building one? The reason the Guzzler is an option is because it does not require you to purchase a releaser/extractor separate. I releaser for 500 taps (the smallest I know of) is like $700. A lot of people are choosing the Guzzler and a lot of people will buy a used pump and a new or used releaser/extractor. There are many ways to get started with vacuum very dependent on budget and the time frame you have in mind to turn a profit.

[lords sugaring]

I will be using a used pump and possibly a used releaser or a new one if I can get a good deal. There's a bunch of used pumps out there and for the price of the guzzler I can do the whole setup (pump, releaser) for just a few hundred bucks more. Budget is around 3k for everything and as far as paying off my investment time is not a big issue. This was my second season sugaring and it's not been a great season, neither was last one. I haven't done well with gravity so I think it's time to start sucking the sap out of these trees

[WestfordSugarworks]

As unc23win said, you will definitely need a mainline for 200 taps. If you can, current recommendations call for 3-5 taps per lateral. I'm guessing you would need more than one mainline for your setup if you follow that recommendation. A 3/4" mainline should work fine. From personal experience I would highly recommend keeping your laterals short. The setup we took over this year has some laterals with more than 20 taps. I would say the average lateral has 10 taps. Even when our vacuum runs at full bore (24 inches for us), you can walk by a spout that has been pushed out of the tree and barely hear the hiss of the leak. Put your finger on the spout you can feel very little vacuum. I think that the increased cost in material up front would be made up for by the higher yields you would achieve with short laterals. Can anyone tell me how many inches you can achieve with the Guzzler? Good luck with your setup !

[BreezyHill]

Welcome to the world of vacuum sap production It does not have to be hard but there are a few rules/guide lines. If your system will be tight...little to no leaks is desired to get best vacuum results; then you need only 1 cfm per 100 taps and you can get a way with even less if you have the time and energy to check the lines.
As Jared said you will want mainline to connect to the releaser and to go into the bush. It is far cheaper to run mainline and saddles than to run 40 5/16 laterals back to a releaser. Consider having laterals at 50' spacings in the bush of dense trees to reduce tubing costs even more. I know it seems like extra expense but in the end you will find it is cheaper to have short 5/16 runs to a main than long runs. I have a section that I drew out and I will be running two mains at a distance of only 35' apart. It is going to save me over $200 above the cost of the extra main since I will be saving on the 5/16 tubing a boat load of feet.

Remember you are looking to connect only 3-5 taps per 5/16 lateral to the main line. This will supply the best vac the last tap and all those between.

For a pump I would look for a Delaval 73, Surge RV, surge BB1, 2 or 3. Also a surge sp - 11 will do well for you. You can get a D 74, 76,or a 75. The Surge Alamo 30 or 40 will be great. The Large body surge 50 or 60 plus will be more than enough. Price will vary on what you can find and from whom you will be buying it. I sold a SP 11 a few weeks ago to a friend in need of a pump and she is pulling 28" on 300 taps I think he said. I ran a BB 1 on 250 at 26-27...when it was really flowing the releaser was cycling so fast the vac level would drop...every three seconds she would dump 30 oz. Now I have an electric releaser and make vac when she dumps.

In high vac you figure .2 gallons of sap per tap per hour. I figure storage at 2 g per tap but I have an RO and as soon as I have 100 G in a tank she starts running on good days. Two days this season she ran and was struggling to keep up with 800 taps. Not sure 100% on the tap count as one counter broke and I didn't realize it until I had used up all the premade drops and only count 47 off 125.

The first year leaks are usually easy to manage, then you factor in rodents like squirrels, Deer, limbs, and this year I had a ladder shot by some clown and a shot gun during season. I had to turn on a second pump to keep the vac up until I found the leak the next day.

I rebuild pumps but right now I am not selling any as I we are planning adding several off farm bushes in a couple of years. If I come across an RV or another BB1 I will let you know. Great pumps but a little small for what we are going to be doing in the near future.

Personnal opinion... there is nothing like a vacuum pump. I have to respect those that are pleased with the guzzlers and the roller pumps...I actually have one of those that I would let go; it is that I have had better luck and experiences with the vac pumps.

Yes they all have their cons and all can be rebuilt in short order. I did my D 75 in just under 2 hrs during a flow and that involved stripping down the dripper and cleaning it and the line; but I could do it with my eyes closed too.

So consider your budget first and foremost.
I am one of those that likes to recycle old dairy equipment and saving $$$ is always a plus!
Look for a good releaser that has good reviews. I cant help you on that...I like electric units as they don't eat CFMS but if you don't have electric service at the site then you are SOL there.
A bender releaser can be had for a fair price and I have seen them on ebay for as little as $49 that would work for you. On the other hand if they are handy then you can make a releaser as several others have.

Read, read, read some more. Learn from others mistakes, try everything once and the good things twice, and remember this is your operation and learn what works in your bush.

I use ladders...many hate ladders, but I don't have time now to pick up sap and right now our area is having log splitters taken out of peoples yards in the day time, atvs pushed out of the garage and loaded on trailers in the night. I cant have tanks sitting on the side of the road and expect them to be there.

Ask anything you want somebody will answer you!

Good Luck!

Ben

[softmaple]

look into the lunchbox. on 22 taps we got 955 gallons all on 5/16 tubing
we have a rolair jc10 running the season and used $4.09 to run it

[ryebrye]

look into the lunchbox. on 22 taps we got 955 gallons all on 5/16 tubing
we have a rolair jc10 running the season and used $4.09 to run it

43 gpt is exceptionally high for a system that can't produce more than 25" of vacuum. That's great that you got that result, but it was only partially due to the releaser and there must be a lot of other factors in play to achieve that result.

For 200 taps, he's probably past the sweet spot of a diaphragm pump.