WTF is CDL Canada thinking about Guzzlers?

[NTBugtraq]

So I got a call from Atkinson's in February asking if I need anything for my 2015 season. A great call, during which I decided to buy a low vacuum Guzzler. It gets delivered with a diaphragm installed, and one spare. I read on Maple Trader that ppl find the diaphragms last like 40 hours, so I ask; "How long should the diaphragms last?" I'm told, 2 diaphragms should last me 1 season. No manual with the pump, so no guidance from the manufacturer. 4 days after it was installed, diaphragm #1 bursts. I immediately order 5 spare diaphragms. That's approx. March 1st. I'm told there are diaphragms coming the next week. Fast forward, we're today. Yesterday overnight my 2nd diaphragm blew. I ask Atkinsons's when they are getting new diaphragms, cause they haven't gotten any since I asked March 1, they tell me they hope Wednesday. I get a call back, they might have 2 at a store out west. Then, I get a call, I am going to get a call from a CDL Engineer from Quebec. No call from Quebec, so Atkinson's are now asking if I got a callback. Apparently, CDL Quebec have diaphragms, but they're sold to whomever...idk why anyone would be calling me unless to say they have some to sell me.

So here's the thing. This is prime time for pump operation, this is the time to have tons of stock. But CDL has been unable to stock diaphragms for Guzzler pumps they've sold.

Now if you ask me, this is a prime reason to never use CDL products. If they don't know when they need to have spare parts, they aren't a company I want to buy products from. Choose for yourself.

[NTBugtraq]

FYI, my CDL rep from Atkinson's is on his way to my house with a diaphragm tonight...Josh, you're the man!

[Apple Hill Sugarworks]

Call Doug at the Bosworth pump comp. 1-888-438-1110

[NTBugtraq]

Thanks Apple Hill, I have called and left a message.

Meanwhile, I got a Bosworth Repair Kit...interestingly, it is nearly twice the cost of a diaphragm replacement, but it comes with 2 additional pieces of rubber that have no apparent place on my pump??? I should say, however, the diaphragm will definitely replace the burst one on my guzzler.

[Daryl]

The 2 additional pieces are the flapper seals on the intake and outlet sides of the pump. The pump will not pump without them. The flapper on the intake side goes on the pump side of the flapper support, the other goes on the outside of the discharge side to seal on the upstroke.
Hope that this helps.
Daryl

[Apple Hill Sugarworks]

The Bosworth comp. just this year has come out with a new diaphragm, it should last longer. Last year I was using one every 3-5 days at the start of the season. I think cold has something to do with them not lasting. I'm using the new one now and its still OK. And you can get just the diaphragm $13.95 each.

Doug stopped by to see me last year and videoed my pump working, it's on there web site, click on maple sap pumps. The day he was there is was making 27". If your tubing is tight you can get that kind of vacuum form that little pump. This year there is just under 500 taps and about 50 are being pulled up hill, from 100 ft. and up 4-6 ft. of lift. AND IT WORKS

[BAP]

Are you using a screen in front of the pump to prevent ice from getting into the diaphragm?

[NTBugtraq]

The Bosworth comp. just this year has come out with a new diaphragm, it should last longer. Last year I was using one every 3-5 days at the start of the season. I think cold has something to do with them not lasting. I'm using the new one now and its still OK. And you can get just the diaphragm $13.95 each.

Yeah, my Ontario Bosworth distributor told me the same thing. The original Guzzler diaphragms were rated at 200k cycles, and the new ones are rated at 1,000,000 cycles, or ~10 days continuous use. From what I understand the only way to tell the difference is the new ones have FDA stamped on them.


Are you using a screen in front of the pump to prevent ice from getting into the diaphragm?

Yes, I have always had a Y strainer with an SS mesh tube to prevent ice, and the Guzzler has always been in an insulated pump-house with a 100W bulb. I knew up front ice shards could kill it (from MapleTrader.com discussions) so ensured that wasn't going to happen.

At this point, I believe the diaphragm mounted on the pump was one of the older 200,000 cycle diaphragms, and the "spare", was one of the 1,000,000 cycle diaphragms. From what I can tell, the replacement my CDL rep Josh rushed to my house on Monday is yet another 200,000 cycle version (no FDA stamp). I was not charged for it, but it sucks they still had those old ones on hand...and have no clue there is an old and new.

I got a call late yesterday from an "engineer" at CDL in Quebec. I sent him a lengthy explanation of the problems they have created, and, to be honest, the huge distrust they have instilled in me. At this point, I personally would prefer to never deal with CDL again, they definitely don't care about me as a 200+ tap syruper, even though my syrup accounts for 1/3rd of my entire income each year. Who knows what will come out of my complaint, but I know they can't help me this year.

Atkinson's was awesome last year, before they sold themselves to CDL, this year...they suck. And I got 4 new diaphragms sent from an Ontario-based Bosworth distributer overnight, while CDL has failed to find any in a month.

What I believe is CDL doesn't know you exist unless you're a mega producer, meanwhile, they bought up the best hobbiest store in Ontario...so, sounds like they're out to screw the small producers who infringe on their big producers market. IMO, CDL sucks.

[NTBugtraq]

BTW, the CDL "engineer", said he'd never heard of MapleTrader.com...lolz

[arcticair]

Glad to see I am not the only 1 unimpressed with their service , placed a phone order - they reread me the order . 1 week later my order was being picked up by a friend . Much to my surprise they couldn't find my order and 3 people told me they had no way to track the order , imagine that , it was a credit card order ?? Finally after 2 days of calling I had to redo the order while my friend was standing at the counter , she was not impressed with them and they treated her poorly . Not to mention how impressed I am , total frustration !

[boondocker]

Wow that's crazy! I bought a brand new CDL 30x8 through my local distributor and I was told it would be 8 to 10 weeks for delivery.......it showed up in 4 weeks complete. They did forget 1 piece of my stack and a 2" ball valve but I had it within the next week. When sugar season came along I was having issues with getting it to boil properly and get my adjustments right. I called them and within 2 days I had a CDL rep in my sugar house boiling syrup and eating pizza with me. Now this was back in 2013........I can't imagine they fell apart that quick. I find there equipment Is Second to none and there attention to detail is perfect. I am a machinist and a welder and everytime I look at that evaporator of mine I smile because the welds and bends are 100% flawless. Really sorry to hear you are having a hard go this season with them, hope you get everything straightened out.

[arcticair]

I was in before they were bought and had a very pleasant and helpful visit last year at the store . Shortly after they were bought out . Took the rep over 6 months to get me a quote on a new unit , he was very helpful and pleasant to deal with . I then sent an email a couple times and haven't heard from him since the beginning of January . Then the phone order mess , has now left me with a very sour taste .

[Clinkis]

I called them 3 weeks ago for a price on an RO housing. They said they would get back to me shortly and have never heard from them again. Also seemed to have little interest in helping a smaller producer like me. They have also upped their delivery charges. I dealt with them before and found them very good but have not been impressed with them in the least this year. Squirrel Creek Farm Supply in Millbrook are excellent. Great people, service and prices. They are Lappierre dealer. They don't have the selection that Atkinsons have but have all the main stuff.

[NTBugtraq]

So on 3/31, after a recommendation in this thread, I ordered 4 new version diaphragms for my Guzzler (new version means they last 1,000,000 cycles, unlike old that last 200,000 cycles) without duck bill valves. The Bosworth supplier got those 4 to me overnight, charged C$14.35 ea, and C$16 for shipping. Today, I received an old style (200,000 cycle) Bosworth diaphragm with duck bill valves, from CDL, at a charge of C$44+, and a $10 shipping charge. Note that $16 got me an overnight delivery, but CDL charged $10 and it took 1 week. I didn't order the diaphragm from CDL, it clearly was part of some idiot's attempt to fix a problem they clearly did not understand.

What I got was a diaphragm labeleved (printed on the diaphragm - 3/13 NIT), which is unlike any other I had previously used on my pump. No idea if it will fit, I don't want to open the package cause there's no way I am paying for it. It seems to me its not the same size, but the labels are identical to earlier diaphragms I have used. What is equally clear is that CDL is still passing off the far more useless older diaphragms to customers, given Bosworth sells the new 1,000,000 cycle diaphragm for the same price they used to charge for the weaker one, CDL is obviously passing off this old useless inventory to customers without caring.

When I called Quebec today to ask who created this order (since it was not me), the result was I got a call from Atkinsons. The Quebec CDL Rep, Charles Pouliot, clearly didn't want to talk to me so he called poor Josh at Atkinsons and basically asked; "Why is Russ calling me?"

CDL is clearly without competent employees atm, and they're screwing up in many ways, including charging me for an order I never made. I told Atkinsons there is no way they will ever see this invoice paid, and no way I will use this part. They're only answer was, well, bring it in before 30 days, presumably because after that they will start charging me interest.

The next message I post here is the email I sent to Mr. Charles Pouliot, after he listened to my complaints on the phone and then said; "Send me your issues, I agree there are problems, if you send me your points I may be able to get something done". Since I haven't had any response for a week, and today he clearly doesn't want to talk to me, I feel publishing my issues here as the more appropriate way to deal with this Dealer who seems not to care about some of their customers.

[NTBugtraq]

Charles,

I hope that I will be able to make CDL understand the issues I have faced recently via Atkinson’s.

I was approached by Josh in February 2015 and asked whether there was anything I needed for the up-coming season. I had wanted to implement some form of vacuum, so I asked what alternatives were available to me. As I have only 218 trees tapped (and not likely to get to 400), Josh recommended the Guzzler.

In the process of figuring out what additional parts I needed to hook it up, Josh came across a demonstration board used by CDL at some previous industry event. I asked whether it had all I needed, and whether there would be a discount. Josh assured me it had everything I needed, including a booster tank.

At the time, I had very little knowledge of vacuum, and assumed the booster would help. He had said that the Guzzler alone should double my sap intake.

He came to my home and brought all of the components. I have attached a copy of the invoice for the pump, as well as the extra parts that were on the demo board. Basically, the set-up was;

My existing mainline ->

SS nipple (much more expensive than plastic) ->
Y strainer (to prevent ice) ->
Clear hose ->
6” x 18” Booster tank with gauge ->
Clear hose to Clear Check Valve (much more expensive than normal poly) ->
Guzzler (no quick connects) ->
Clear Check Valve ->
Elbow ->
My existing storage

I asked Josh about the diaphragms, as I had read on the MapleTrader.com site that they only lasted 40 hours. Josh insisted that the new diaphragm already installed on the pump, plus the one spare he provided, would be all I needed for the season.

I installed everything and fired up the pump. 4 days later (continuous use) the diaphragm ruptured. Since there was no manual supplied with the purchase, I had no idea of how to put the spare diaphragm on, so I called Josh. Given he was very busy with in-store customers, it took some time before I could speak with him. He, unfortunately, did not know how to replace the diaphgram. I searched the net and finally found the Bosworth site and downloaded instructions on how to put the spare on.

It took another 2 weeks for the quick connects for the pump to arrive.

Meanwhile, I had ordered an additional 5 diaphragms from Josh when the first burst. Monday, when the second diaphragm burst, I called Josh and asked if they had arrived…they hadn’t. Somehow he found 1 single Bosworth repair kit, and he brought that to my house on Monday night. Yesterday, I spoke to a Bosworth rep in Ontario who shipped, via UPS, 4 diaphragms to me which arrived this morning. I should also point out that he charged me $14.95, whereas your catalog says you charge $27.95 for the same thing.

Meanwhile, the Bosworth repair kit that Josh brought me included 2 replacement rubber check valves (flappers, as they call them, the ones in the pack I got were “Duck Bill”). I called Bosworth and asked them what they were, and they explained they ensured the pump vacuumed properly. IOWs, the Clear Plastic Check Valves I got with the CDL demo board were completely unnecessary as the pump has them built-in. Seems nobody at CDL knew this.

So, the bottom line issues are:


Atkinson sold me totally unnecessary parts (SS nipple, clear check valves, booster tank)
Atkinson charged me full price for parts used on a demonstration board
Atkinson/CDL failed to keep spares mandatory to the operation of the pump available at peak season (no diaphragms available for a month now)
Atkinson were not adequately trained on the vacuum pump they were selling (only one person there knows anything about it, and he does not know enough)
Atkinson treat in-store customers over customers who call by phone, frequently (even if I want to check whether they have it in-store for me to go and buy something)

In my opinion, there is a serious disconnect between CDL and customers like me. I may only be considered a “hobbiest”, but the reality is I am counting on maple syrup for at least 1/3 of my annual income. It is crucial that the investments I make in equipment are good choices, and I rely on the advice from Atkinson’s to make those choices. Last season my experience with far better than this year.

I would appreciate you taking this information to whomever may be able to make a difference.

[NTBugtraq]

I was at Atkinsons today, and had several conversations, including one with Josh.

I want to clearly apologize for saying Josh did not give me a discount on the demonstration board. Josh did not indicate any discount on the invoice, and had told me that. When I was writing up my issues, I checked a couple of the prices on the invoice and found they were identical to what was in the CDL catalog. Unfortunately, not everything on that invoice was part of the demonstration board. Those parts there were on the demonstration board had been discounted 10%.

My apologies Josh.

[NTBugtraq]

So I had a great call with Daniel Lalanne, one of the owners of CDL. Interestingly, I had a good chat with a David Lalanne at Atikinsons. I don't know the precise relationship between the two. David did his best to apologize, but acknowledged that after the original owners of Atkinsons left, it left them with a void for the main season...a void they couldn't fill. Of course one would expect a company as big as CDL would have had a contingency, but they acknowledged they didn't have the expertise that Atkinsons customers had come to expect for the main season...iows, they were swamped with questions they couldn't easily answer. They also acknowledged they made some big mistakes...my diaphragms being only one.

I wish I could blame them entirely, but I have to admit I wanted them to give me all the answers. So multiply that by a couple of hundred, couple that with inexperience, and the outcome is as I've described. They have happily agreed to take back all that I don't want or don't need (that demo board with the booster tank and clear check valves), and they've had someone with experience answer my questions (booster tank with low vac serves no real purpose, using a filter press really isn't viable till you got to like 500gals of syrup, and RO's aren't cheap) which is all what I relied on Atkinsons telling me. So it boils down to no diaphragms at a crucial time, and they admit that was their mistake.


While its good to know another store in Millbrook is great, I have to believe we will not see another sapping season like this with Atkinsons, the people are too committed. As I have always said, the people there are great, there just seemed to be a huge disconnect between them and CDL. That might explain why David Lalanne is there now?

So, I banged my fists on the high-chair tray so I didn't have to eat peas...and I got served better...time for me to say I do believe they've been swamped and are recovering. For example, I had a Y strainer that burst from freezing, and I couldn't remember whether it was 1" or 1-1/14", so David said, "Take one of each and return whichever one it isn't"....brilliant, they had both so I took both. I definitely came away from today's experience knowing they're sorry, want to, and will do better.

This message has not been paid for in any way, shape, or kind...;-]

[NTBugtraq]

FYI, I was in Atkinsons today and asked to buy Guzzler diaphragms...low and behold I'm told the last two were sold on Saturday. So once again they are out of a critical tapping consumable at the beginning of the season. Who comes up with their required inventory?

[GeneralStark]

Who waits until the beginning of the season to buy such a critical component? Looks like everyone else beat you to it.:)

[n8hutch]

I am not sure if they are the same but I was at Goodrichs last month & he had all kinds of those diaphragms.

A little off topic but I stopped by a new sugar house today and the guy had 1200+ taps hooked up to ,2 double guzzlers with 2 mainlines coming in and he was pulling 27" on both. I was pretty impressed.

[johnallin]

I really don't think we need to title a thread with "WT#" . No need for that...there are kids that read this forum.